Ilfotec DD-X toxicity concerns

sophia97 · Oct 6, 2019

Hi everyone,

I’m new to these forums, but I’ve been shooting black and white film for a while now. I’ve always sent my work to the photo lab in town, but as I’m starting to take my photography more seriously, I want to have more control over my process by developing my own film.

Ilford films are my favourite to use, particularly Ilford Delta 400. I’ve done some research and have found that Ilfotec DD-X developer is best suited to compliment D400 and many other Ilford films. However, I’ve read the MSDS sheet and am concerned about some of the ingredients and their potentially hazardous carcinogenic effects (I believe it’s mostly the hydroquinone).

I have zero experience handling these kinds of chemicals, and while I’m typically not an alarmist, I’d prefer not to work with substances that could be bad for my long term health. At the same time, I really want to take my creative process into my own hands and develop at home. I know people who have worked with darkroom chemicals their whole lives with no problems, but I’m having a hard time ignoring the MSDS sheet. Can anyone provide some advice in regards to how seriously I should take these warnings, and perhaps what measures I can take to make my darkroom safer?

Thank you!

pentaxuser · Oct 6, 2019

If DDX is seriously toxic then a lot of are doomed : Seriously I'd take the precaution of washing my hands before eating if you spill any DDX onto them. Back to the whimsy now, I avoid drinking it as well

pentaxuser

AgX · Oct 6, 2019

Welcome to Apug!

First the bad news: the majority of commercialized developers have a terrifying MSDS. The same time all these substances are in use for many decades, typically under less strict personal safety regime than today.

Second the good news: the developing agent in DD is NOT of the kind that likely gives immidiete skin reaktion on contact.

What can you do?
-) plan all steps ahead
-) be prepared for likely mishaps (leakage, falling over, breakage
-) avoid skin contact, especially to concentrates
-) ventilate your lab (up to several room volumes per hour, depending on activity and process)

Comsider less toxic processes.
There is even a "eadible developers" thread in the depth of Apug.

MattKing · Oct 6, 2019

Welcome to Photrio.
The commonly available and frequently used darkroom chemicals are extremely safe, as long as one applies a reasonable amount of care during use.
Some obvious suggestions: don't ingest them (or at least most of them), work in areas with reasonable ventilation, minimize spills and promptly clean up any spills that may happen.
DD-X is of course a liquid concentrate, and is fairly easy to handle without spills. The only liquid concentrate I use that find requires particular care in handling is the Kodak Indicator stop bath. In concentrate form that stop bath is a strong acid, and can stain if spilled. By comparison, once diluted for use, that stop bath is essentially vinegar, plus a touch of indicator.
There are a couple of extra steps that I take when I use dry chemicals, because it isn't particularly wise to breathe in large quantities of them, but the aforementioned ventilation and normal care with pouring and handling is sufficient.
Although I and many others I know have worked for years without using gloves, I still recommend nitrile gloves be used.
When you review the MSDS, it helps to keep in mind that the chemicals are also used in high volume, commercial applications that can involve employees in extensive and near continuous exposure during a work day. Your use would most likely not be nearly as extensive. Even so, there are many, many photo lab employees who have worked for years without encountering work related health problems.
The most common problem I've encountered in my 50+ years of both work related and personal darkroom work - not personally, but amongst a very small number of friends, coworkers and acquaintances - is that some people develop allergic sensitivities which can become so bad as to prevent darkroom work.
I started with this stuff at age eleven, and the simple lessons I received at that time from my Dad was probably sufficient to keep me safe for the 5+ decades since.

AgX · Oct 6, 2019

I would like to add:

-) have running water (water tap) nearby

Kino · Oct 6, 2019

I always tell people who are concerned by the properties of a MSDS for photographic chemicals that if the same lawyers had to write a similar document for any food you ate, you'd never eat again.

That being said, some substances in photographic formulas ARE, without question, toxic and have to be used and disposed of properly; The same can be said of household paints, cleaners, automotive lubricants, hair dyes and batteries.

Educate yourself, use and dispose of them properly and you shouldn't have a problem.

Rudeofus · Oct 6, 2019

Regarding toxicity of Hydroquinone: there exist(ed) some skin lotions, which brightened skin and contained Hydroquinone. The Hydroquinone was directly applied to human skin for prolonged periods of time, and little surprise, health problems appeared. After these creams were taken off the market, some smart-asses started to make these creams themselves. Some countries reacted by making sales Hydroquinone illegal unless one could prove the stuff would not end up on somebody's skin. This whole thing was surrounded by talk about the toxicity of Hydroquinone and its alleged carcinogenic properties, and all these claims now end up in MSDS. Yes, Hydroquinone should not end up on your skin, and if it does, it has to be washed off in due time.

So here we are: I strongly suspect, that you won't apply DD-X to your skin. If droplets hit your skin, you will likely wash them off quickly, after all DD-X is quite alkaline so splashes left on your skin will quickly turn into a painful experience. As long as you treat DD-X with the same level of respect as all other photochemistry products, DD-X will pose no danger to you.

AgX · Oct 6, 2019

Rudeofus said:
So here we are: I strongly suspect, that you won't apply DD-X to your skin. If droplets hit your skin, you will likely wash them off quickly, .../QUOTE]

Do not simplifiy too much. I once got a few tiny droplets of another developer concentrate on my back of hand, washed it off within about 4 sec. but I did not forget those itching blisters after decades...

Also that Hydroquinone story of it being the cause for the intruduction of MSDSs is new to me.

Rudeofus · Oct 6, 2019

AgX said:
Do not simplifiy too much. I once got a few tiny droplets of another developer concentrate on my back of hand, washed it off within about 4 sec. but I did not forget those itching blisters after decades...

I would certainly agree, that some developers can do this, but DD-X most likely is not one of them.

AgX said:
Also that Hydroquinone story of it being the cause for the intruduction of MSDSs is new to me.

Sorry for my sloppy way of phrasing this. Of course HQ was not the reason MSDS came into existence. What I tried to say was that HQ is now considered very dangerous, because people used it in a way which caused its latent toxicity to come into full effect. As a result, MSDS now treat HQ as something very dangerous. 50 years ago people would move prints from MQ based developer to stop bath with their bare hands without problems, today Suvatlar no longer has HQ in his price list.

AgX · Oct 6, 2019

But this applies on nearly all chemicals today considered dangerous and having been in use for about 100 years.

koraks · Oct 6, 2019

If toxicity is of particular concern, due to safety or environmental considerations, consider using xtol for film development and one of the various 'eco' print developers for paper. They generally don't contain hydroquinone (xtol certainly doesn't), but usually something like ascorbate instead.

AgX · Oct 6, 2019

Xtol contains the same developing agent as DD.

pentaxuser · Oct 6, 2019

Have we said enough, sophia97, to allay your fears about DDX?

pentaxuser

reddesert · Oct 6, 2019

There are many substances whose safety hazards needs be taken into account for daily or commercial use, but that have very little safety risk for occasional use. Hydroquinone is in that category. MSDS sheets are provided both as a CYA, and for legitimate safety issues that someone who's (for example) breathing a substance 8 hours a day at work, needs to account for, so reading MSDSs without context doesn't give you a sense of how serious any given chemical is.

Developing agents make a chemical reaction called reduction (opposite of oxidation), and it turns out that reduction is also the reaction that hair and skin lighteners use. The last time I looked (a while ago), supermarket hair dyes in the US often included hydroquinone, and perhaps some other chemicals that are also used in developers. So, on the one hand it's safe enough to sell in the supermarket, on the other hand, as many people who've colored their hair know, a lot of these bleaches/dyes are kind of nasty and you want to rinse them out as soon as they've had enough time to work.

For an amateur photographer, the principal worry with hydroquinone is that some people develop contact dermatitis from exposure to it. If you want to be careful, you can try Xtol or similar developers, which use phenidone, a low toxicity developing agent. Or you can wear rubber gloves when dealing with the developer. If you are developing film in tanks, you probably won't get more than a few drips of chemicals on your hands anyway. If you are developing paper in trays, you can use tongs. Film in trays is probably the case where you are most likely to get chemicals on your hands.

Ariston · Oct 6, 2019

I always do two shots of tequila after handling any darkroom chemicals. Just to be safe.

Adrian Bacon · Oct 7, 2019

sophia97 said:
Hi everyone,

I’m new to these forums, but I’ve been shooting black and white film for a while now. I’ve always sent my work to the photo lab in town, but as I’m starting to take my photography more seriously, I want to have more control over my process by developing my own film.

Ilford films are my favourite to use, particularly Ilford Delta 400. I’ve done some research and have found that Ilfotec DD-X developer is best suited to compliment D400 and many other Ilford films. However, I’ve read the MSDS sheet and am concerned about some of the ingredients and their potentially hazardous carcinogenic effects (I believe it’s mostly the hydroquinone).

I have zero experience handling these kinds of chemicals, and while I’m typically not an alarmist, I’d prefer not to work with substances that could be bad for my long term health. At the same time, I really want to take my creative process into my own hands and develop at home. I know people who have worked with darkroom chemicals their whole lives with no problems, but I’m having a hard time ignoring the MSDS sheet. Can anyone provide some advice in regards to how seriously I should take these warnings, and perhaps what measures I can take to make my darkroom safer?

Thank you!

Too much of anything is not good for you.

That said, even though most film processing chemicals probably aren't that great for you, it's not like you're going to be taking a bath in them. Follow simple safety protocols and you'll be fine. If you spill some, just clean it up. Wear protective gear (safety glasses and gloves). It's not really that big of a deal and isn't any more dangerous than handling drain cleaner.

MattKing · Oct 7, 2019

Adrian Bacon said:
Wear protective gear (safety glasses and gloves). It's not really that big of a deal and isn't any more dangerous than handling drain cleaner.

I would argue that drain cleaner is a lot worse!
And as for safety glasses, they are much more necessary with drain cleaner than they are with DD-X.

mshchem · Oct 7, 2019

MattKing said:
I would argue that drain cleaner is a lot worse!
And as for safety glasses, they are much more necessary with drain cleaner than they are with DD-X.

Absolutely, drain cleaner, toilet bowl cleaners, gasoline holy cow. Lithium batteries, driving a car.

Modern darkroom chemicals are very safe. Gloves and safety glasses. Especially low risk is developing film on reels in a tank, very low exposure to fumes.

I don't use gloves but I rinse any chemistry off asap. I were glasses to see, if I'm mixing something strong I put on a face shield, but you should never need to fool with strong acid if you use Ilford's package chemistry

foc · Oct 7, 2019

Follow the instructions and use common sense.

In all my years mixing chemicals, colour and B&W I never had a problem. Just sometimes now I get a pain in my 3rd eye !!!!!

Adrian Bacon · Oct 7, 2019

MattKing said:
I would argue that drain cleaner is a lot worse!
And as for safety glasses, they are much more necessary with drain cleaner than they are with DD-X.

No argument from me. I just don’t want to be the one to be quoted as saying “no safety gear required” if somebody has an accident and gets hurt.

AgX · Oct 7, 2019

koraks said:
If toxicity is of particular concern, due to safety or environmental considerations, consider using xtol for film development and one of the various 'eco' print developers for paper. They generally don't contain hydroquinone (xtol certainly doesn't), but usually something like ascorbate instead.

AgX said:
Xtol contains the same developing agent as DD.

Seemingly both these posts are ambigious:
Koraks' statement could be read as that one developer containts the toxic Hydroquinone and the the other one just the benign Ascorbate.
My statement could be read as if both developers just contain 1 agent.

DD-X contains Hydroquinone and Dimezone-S
XTol contains Ascorbate and Dimezone-S

koraks · Oct 7, 2019

Yes, and checking the ddx msds, it seems it only contains a small amount of HQ at that. Personally I wouldn't be concerned in the least as long as reasonable precautions are regarded to prevent ingestion etc.

Ilfotec DD-X toxicity concerns

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