Ilford XP-2 Super 400 iso film, is it really Super?

kivis · May 31, 2018

While we are on the subject of Ilford XP-2 Super film, an article reads,

"So here's how to shoot XP2 Super, according to me. It's simple. This yields the highest percentage of results of the best quality—I don't care a whit for "make do" solutions that yield only acceptable results. Using camera metering:
• For regular shooting in most normal lighting, use EI (ISO) 200.
• For shooting in extremely bright and/or contrasty lighting, like harsh full sun and shadows, use EI (ISO) 100. This insures adequate shadow detail, and the highlights won't block up.
• For shooting in low and low-contrast lighting—and this includes indoor shooting and "available darkness"—use EI (ISO) 400—or even a little higher, although I personally don't recommend ever going all the way to (gasp) 800."

My question is, can you do this moving speeds around within a single roll of film? If so, would the exposures come out ok?

AgX · May 31, 2018

The technology of dye-based b&w film yields the chance to design for a large latitude.
The first film of this type Agfapan Vario XL was designed and marketed this way (EI ASA 125-1600).

Ste_S · May 31, 2018

I don't think it's different from a lot of other C41 (and some B&W) films out there - can take two stops of over exposure, and one stop of under exposure.
Ilford have just tried to be clever with the marketing for it.

Ignore the bit in the article you've posted about not underexposing, this guy meters for 800ISO and doesn't appear to have issues.
https://emulsive.org/articles/why-s...-part-3-ilford-xp2-super-report-by-simon-king

Lachlan Young · May 31, 2018

Where your effective EI ends up depends a very great deal on where you meter from - i.e. whether you key to the shadows or the highlights. That said, XP2 is pretty tolerant of a surprising amount of exposure variation & like a regular C-41 film, overexposure does reduce the appearance of 'graininess' from the dye clouds.

macfred · May 31, 2018

I rarely use ISO800 with the XP2; ISO100, 200 or 400 on one single roll is not a problem. Developing process is C-41 (though others have great results developing in b/w chemicals).
Yes, the negatives come out fine and usable (with individual exceptions).
Maybe you need to know that I scan my XP2 negatives and so there is room enough for adjusting the results. I know there are plenty of people who will refuse this.
Try out - maybe you'll like it (or not).

macfred · May 31, 2018

Another chromogenic b/w-negative film is the (now discontinued) Fuji Neopan 400CN - similar behaviour / same exposure latitude as the Ilford XP2 - it's one of my favorite films.
You can still find lot's of Fuji Neopan 400CN from the last production cycle in the market (especially in the UK - Exp. date is 5/2019).

Ste_S · May 31, 2018

macfred said:
Another chromogenic b/w-negative film is the (now discontinued) Fuji Neopan 400CN - similar behaviour / same exposure latitude as the Ilford XP2 - it's one of my favorite films.
You can still find lot's of Fuji Neopan 400CN from the last production cycle in the market (especially in the UK - Exp. date is 5/2019).

Neopan 400CN is/was made by Ilford for Fuji, it's essentially XP2 to Fuji specs. I've shot both in 120 and 35mm and couldn't really notice any major differences

Ian Grant · May 31, 2018

AgX said:
The technology of dye-based b&w film yields the chance to design for a large latitude.
The first film of this type Agfapan Vario XL was designed and marketed this way (EI ASA 125-1600).

Vario XL was a terrible film, XP1 was leagues ahead but labs didn't like the non standard C41 development time. XP2 overcame this as it used the standard development time.

macfred said:
I rarely use ISO800 with the XP2; ISO100, 200 or 400 on one single roll is not a problem. Developing process is C-41 (though others have great results developing in b/w chemicals).

It's possible to push process XP2 Super, Ilford gave push processing instruction for XP1but these were dropped in the XP2and later Super datasheets again because C41 labs didn't want to offer this service.

Ilford suggested increased C41 devlopmenent:
800 EI - increase development time by 30%
1600 EI - increase development time by 50%

This works for XP2 and XP2 Super and was something I was doing regularly for many years when I was shooting rock concerts.

I discussed this with a senoir Ilford chemist and two sales executives over a business lunch in the early 1980's, they agreed XP2 could be push processed the'd tested it themselves, they also indicated the reason it was dropped from the datasheets.

Ian

AgX · May 31, 2018

Ian Grant said:
Vario XL was a terrible film, XP1 was leagues ahead but labs didn't like the non standard C41 development time. XP2 overcame this as it used the standard development time.

Yes, the Agfapan Vario XL had a quite limited time at the market, but it applied emulsion technology right. And even was processed in standard C-41.

Later films by competitors were marketed rather for processing convenience than for exposure latitude.

Eric Rose · May 31, 2018

I love xp2! Imho the best b&w film for portraits and shiny industrial stuff.

pentaxuser · May 31, 2018

Ian Grant said:
Ilford suggested increased C41 devlopmenent:
800 EI - increase development time by 30%
1600 EI - increase development time by 50%

This works for XP2 and XP2 Super and was something I was doing regularly for many years when I was shooting rock concerts.

I discussed this with a senoir Ilford chemist and two sales executives over a business lunch in the early 1980's, they agreed XP2 could be push processed the'd tested it themselves, they also indicated the reason it was dropped from the datasheets.

Ian

Thanks Ian. You may have given these percentage increase for 800 and 1600 in the past and I simply missed it. Certainly worth noting

pentaxuser

Ian Grant · May 31, 2018

pentaxuser said:
Thanks Ian. You may have given these percentage increase for 800 and 1600 in the past and I simply missed it. Certainly worth noting

pentaxuser

I think I gave actual times quite a few years ago, the percentages are easier if not processing at 38ºC.

Ian

pentaxuser · May 31, 2018

Ian Grant said:
I think I gave actual times quite a few years ago, the percentages are easier if not processing at 38ºC.

Ian

Ian, do I read into your quote that there is a range of temps within which XP2 Super can be equally successfully processed in C41 compared to the pretty rigid 3 mins 15 secs for colour neg? If so, what might that range be?

Thanks

pentaxuser

macfred · May 31, 2018

Ian Grant said:
... It's possible to push process XP2 Super, Ilford gave push processing instruction for XP1but these were dropped in the XP2and later Super datasheets again because C41 labs didn't want to offer this service.

Ilford suggested increased C41 devlopmenent:
800 EI - increase development time by 30%
1600 EI - increase development time by 50%

This works for XP2 and XP2 Super and was something I was doing regularly for many years when I was shooting rock concerts.

I discussed this with a senoir Ilford chemist and two sales executives over a business lunch in the early 1980's, they agreed XP2 could be push processed the'd tested it themselves, they also indicated the reason it was dropped from the datasheets.

Ian

Thank you, Ian - I didn't know this.

---

pentaxuser said:
Ian, do I read into your quote that there is a range of temps within which XP2 Super can be equally successfully processed in C41 compared to the pretty rigid 3 mins 15 secs for colour neg? If so, what might that range be?

I'm also interested in more details about C-41 push prossesing with Ilford XP2 Super.

MattKing · May 31, 2018

With respect to processing monochrome C41 films at non-standard temperatures and for non-standard times, I can confidently assure everyone that you won't have any colour crossover issues to worry about.

AgX · Jun 1, 2018

AgX said:
The technology of dye-based b&w film yields the chance to design for a large latitude.
The first film of this type Agfapan Vario XL was designed and marketed this way (EI ASA 125-1600).

AgX said:
Later films by competitors were marketed rather for processing convenience than for exposure latitude.

But when entering that field with their XP-1 Ilford gave a latitude even extending the Agfa one, EI ASA 50-1600, though stating a fall-off of image quality at the extremes.

Ian Grant · Jun 1, 2018

pentaxuser said:
Ian, do I read into your quote that there is a range of temps within which XP2 Super can be equally successfully processed in C41 compared to the pretty rigid 3 mins 15 secs for colour neg? If so, what might that range be?

Thanks

pentaxuser

I have seen third party charts with alternative imes/temperatutures for C41, as Matt King hints this can cause cross over effects with colour films but of coarse XP2 Super is B&W film.

Ilford XP1 had a time/temperature chart covering 30º-40ºC but I don't think they ever had one for XP2, as the dev times are different it's not valid. I always processed at 38º C as I did with E6 as well.

macfred said:
I'm also interested in more details about C-41 push prossesing with Ilford XP2 Super.

There's not much to add really, it's straight forward and gave results that were far superior to pushing HP5 or Tri-X.

XP2 at 3200 EI

XP1 at 1600 EI

The image resizing etc here affects sharpness and apparent graininess, these were posted in the Gallery section.

Ian

macfred · Jun 1, 2018

^
Thank you for the input, Ian - very pleasing photographs !

Ilford XP-2 Super 400 iso film, is it really Super?

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