Ilford Witness

AgX

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Some remarkable design details.

Had the two manufacturers otherwise been involved in Photography?
 

Bikerider

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There was one sold by the London Auction house Bonhams in 2008 (web search) and it achieved a price of £2760.

It does not appear to have all the bits like the case, box and instructions so given the time gap since 2008 it is feasible that the price would now possible reach £5000+.

There was a cheaper version called the Ilford Advocate, with a fixed lens and the body made basically of Bakelite, They do crop up every now and again but are not as sought after or expensive as the Witness. Probably in the low hundreds and then it would have to be very good.
 
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Paul Howell

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Great looking Camera, the Powerball is at almost a billion, might buy a few tickets, if I get lucky.
 

MattKing

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Ilford Witness, and Ilford Advocate.
Methinks that someone involved in the law was also involved with these!
 

AgX

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No surprise, that you put up this topic... Well, "Witness" seems to me a great name for a camera, but in the context of photography I cannot begin anything with "Advocate", maybe I am just slow on the uptake. Or Matt is right with his explanation
 

Bikerider

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AgX said:
No surprise, that you put up this topic... Well, "Witness" seems to me a great name for a camera, but in the context of photography I cannot begin anything with "Advocate", maybe I am just slow on the uptake. Or Matt is right with his explanation
Click to expand...

An Advocate is another name for a Barrister or Solicitor and is sometimes used in English courts although it's general use seems to have dropped off..
 
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benjiboy

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Bikerider said:
An Advocate is another name for a Barrister or Solicitor and is sometimes used in English courts although it's general use seems to have dropped off..
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I once spoke to a girl and when asked her what she did for a living, " I'm a barrister" she replied, which impressed the hell out of me, until I discovered she worked in a coffee shop !. This is not a joke, it's true.
 

Donald Qualls

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All a matter of accent. Folks from some regions pronounce barrista and barrister identically. Especially if they don't know the former word is Italian.
 
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benjiboy

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I'm not a café society kind of man, and I had never heard the word in that context before, it's like rat catchers calling themselves "rodent extermination officers", I would call it in English a waitress.
 

Donald Qualls

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A barrista is the person behind the espresso machine, not a waitress.
 

AgX

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Actually it means a expert in coffee-making in a bar. And it is spelled with only one "r".
 

MattKing

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benjiboy said:
I once spoke to a girl and when asked her what she did for a living, " I'm a barrister" she replied, which impressed the hell out of me, until I discovered she worked in a coffee shop !. This is not a joke, it's true.
Click to expand...
Was she wearing a horse-hair wig at the time?
Trivia: Counsel don't wear wigs in BC's superior courts, although they do wear the robes, vests, wing collars and tabs.
There actually is specific legislation prohibiting the wearing of those wigs in BC courts, which in my time I was thankful for, because they are apparently uncomfortable and awkward to wear. The robes wear challenge enough!
The reason for the prohibition was that in early times, they were rare and hard to obtain, and therefore the decision was made to not give an advantage to the small number of counsel who were able to get their hands on them.
 

Craig75

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Beautiful example. Price is about right from other less complete copies ive seen.
 

AgX

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AgX said:
Had the two manufacturers otherwise been involved in Photography?
Click to expand...

I am not too knowledgable of the british photo-industry, and those names did not ring a bell.
 

Craig75

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AgX said:
I am not too knowledgable of the british photo-industry, and those names did not ring a bell.
Click to expand...

Its probably more a german camera - designers worked for leica and contax and lenses were made by a german in england. It just happened to be made and financed in britain.

Theres probably very few high end miniature cameras (if any) designed and made in Britain.

The other two i can think of are jaeger le coulte designed in britain but made in switzerland and the Reid which is a leica iii copy albeit to a ridiculously high build quality.

The mysterious world of european rangefinders - witness, casca, gamma, alpas hybrid, gami, ducati - some real beauties fell under the leica steamroller
 

bripriuk

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The Witness was designed in the UK by two German refugees. who had previously worked for Zeiss and Leica. after the second world war. It was made in the UK in 1953, but there were problems with production and marketing, and the following year (1954) Leica introduced the M series which killed it off. You can read all about it HERE
Brian P
 

AgX

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Thank you both. Slowly I get a dejavu... As indicated I should read that all up again and try to dive more deep into british camera history.

Brian, the article you linked to refers partially to author Frank Smith. His story though is questionable, in spite of often being published, and more thorough research meanwhile has been published.
 
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benjiboy

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This Ilford Witness outfit is on sale at my local analog camera shop and the more I think about it the less sense it makes to me, I don't understand why the owner (who I know quite well) whose shop is closed at the moment and has been closed on and off for months due to the Covid restrictions, expects to sell this outfit for £14,999 I have no idea how much he paid for it but I can't imagine anyone in the height of a pandemic, and recession will have that kind of money to spend.
 

foc

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Maybe it's a typo.
 

foc

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And looking at the website, there are lots of products without an image. (a photographic website without images???)



It doesn't instill confidence in the website and would suggest to me that the site is poorly maintained.
 

perkeleellinen

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It might be a commission sale like Ffordes do - they sell the camera on your behalf and take 10% of the sale price.
 

perkeleellinen

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foc said:
It doesn't instill confidence in the website and would suggest to me that the site is poorly maintained.
Click to expand...

Also they use stock images for the items on sale. I've bought a few things from them over the phone and my impression is they are rushed off their feet and the website takes second fiddle to packing up boxes and receiving new stock. Their items move quickly; sometimes on their Instagram they announce new stock and its gone in minutes.
 
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