ilford wash method, purple tint

timeUnit · Dec 18, 2005

I have switched to thre Ilford washing method because it's faster and uses less water. I have noticed that my films have a more pronounced purple tint than when I washed them for 8 minutes with 3 litres/minute. I have read I should not worry about the tint. What do others here think?

Anyone using the ilford washing method?

ann · Dec 18, 2005

we have been using this method for years with no problems, including any purple tint.

Neal · Dec 18, 2005

Dear timeUnit,

Try a bath of hypo clearing agent after the first wash.

Neal Wydra

kaiyen · Dec 18, 2005

Well, you don't have to worry about the tint. But I do find that I need the HCA wash to make sure the tint is gone on all films I use. I do it before the wash begins, though. Between the post-fix wash, the HCA wash, and the first rinse I tend to see a lot pink coming out, especially with Delta 100.

allan

timeUnit · Dec 18, 2005

OK, I should have said I use HCA.

My processing:
Presoak 2-3 min (until water clears)
Develop
Stop/Wash 1 minute
Fix 5-6 minutes in Hypam 1+4
Wash 1 minute
HCA 2 minutes constant agitation (Kodak HCA)
Ilford wash method (4-5 minutes, I guess.)
Last wash with a couple of drops of Ilfotol Wetting agent, about 1-2 minutes.

I use HP5+ (slight purple), Fuji Neopan (no tint), Adox/Efke 50 (no tint), Lucky films (pink tint).

Except from Kodak, most films have only a slight tint. Kodak films often make fix, water and HCA pink, and often the film comes out pink/purple even after long washes. That is one of the reasons I don't use Kodak so much.

Tom Hoskinson · Dec 18, 2005

for antihalation die removal - if HCA doesn't do it, try soaking the film for 5 minutes in a 20 gram/ liter solution of Sodium Carbonate. An excellent and inexpensive substitute for HCA is 20 grams of Sodium Sulfite plus 5 grams of Sodium MetaBisulfite dissolved in a liter of water.

Quinten · Dec 18, 2005

Is your fixer still okay?

reellis67 · Dec 18, 2005

Quinten said:
Is your fixer still okay?

It's not a fixer problem. I get a thin purple tint to most of my Ilford films using this wash method and my fixer tests out fine (using the chemical tester, not just based on film leader clearing time). I've never cared one way of the other about it, but I see it in most of my negs.

- Randy

discotex · Dec 18, 2005

I use the Ilford wash method as well and I find my negs don't go completely clear. I don't presoak or use HCA. Just dev, stop, fix, wash.

I use VC papers so I was initially worried that it might effect contrast but from what I've read that isn't an issue. From my rather un-scientific tests I can't tell the difference when comparing negs that I've washed until clear.

One thing that people seem to recommend is exposing your negs to sunlight as this apparently breaks the tint down.

..Matt

Edwardv · Dec 19, 2005

Purple Tint

The newsletter "The Darkroom Image" suggested exposing the dried film to the sun for 15 - 30 minutes. This removes the purple or magenta tint . It works for me.

dancqu · Dec 19, 2005

timeUnit said:
Anyone using the ilford washing method?

Quite a few I'd say. I use the method but don't work
so hard at it as some. After the first rinse and a refill I
mix some inversions in with some still water diffusing.
That is I let the film sit and soak some. By diffusion
is the only way those last deep down amounts of
hypo are going to surface anyhow.

Use at least room temperature water. Also, see how
the sequence works using distilled water first through
last rinse.

For a bunch of information on washing film, FB, and RC
papers, search Google for, ilford permanganate test .
You'd have a hot link but my mouse is
on it's last leg. Dan

Quinten · Dec 20, 2005

reellis67 said:
It's not a fixer problem. I get a thin purple tint to most of my Ilford films using this wash method and my fixer tests out fine (using the chemical tester, not just based on film leader clearing time). I've never cared one way of the other about it, but I see it in most of my negs.

- Randy

Maybe there are more causes, I sometimes find a longer fixing time helps but indeed not always, specially with roll film that I didn't prewash. I usually let my film stand in water and wash a few times before I start developing, never really have purple tints...

timeUnit · Dec 21, 2005

I starting to think the tap water is the culprit, since our results vary so much. Ole (I think t was) wrote that a more alkaline process, including the washing, would remove the purple (or cyan, as with Fomapan) tint better.

I don't know if my water acidic or alkaline, but I know it's quite "soft". That means less calcium, right?

All in all, I don't really worry about it, I was just curious. If I really want that stain out, I'll try a good five or ten minute soak at the end of the Ilford method, or maybe making the wash a bit alkaline.

gbroadbridge · Dec 21, 2005

I don't worry about a slight purple tint to the neg. I find it magically goes away after 3-6 months in storage and does not affect prints.

Maine-iac · Dec 21, 2005

timeUnit said:
I have switched to thre Ilford washing method because it's faster and uses less water. I have noticed that my films have a more pronounced purple tint than when I washed them for 8 minutes with 3 litres/minute. I have read I should not worry about the tint. What do others here think?

Anyone using the ilford washing method?

Over the years, I've discovered that it depends on the particular manufacturing run of the film you're using. Sometimes, using identical procedures and chemicals, I've gotten pink tints of varying shades with Delta 400 and at other times so little it's barely noticeable unless compared with one which has no tint whatsoever, eg. Fuji ACROS. In my experience, and I've used Delta 400 for years, Delta films always have a bit of tint. This is not harmful to the film and does not affect printing in any way. A slightly more concentrated than normal solution of HCA will take most of it out.

Larry

juanito · Dec 21, 2005

Try fixing with more vigorous agitation, it has work for me.

Also Kodak says regarding to Tmax films:"Important: Your fixer will be exhausted more rapidly with this film than with other films. If your negatives show a magenta (pink) stain after fixing, your fixer may be near exhaustion, or you may not have used a long enough time. If the stain is slight, it will not affect image stability, negative contrast, or printing times. You can remove a slight pink stain with KODAK Hypo Clearing Agent. However, if the stain is pronounced and irregular over the film surface, refix the film in fresh fixer."

HP5 may be an equivalent technology to Tmax.

dancqu · Dec 22, 2005

juanito said:
Also Kodak says regarding to Tmax films: "Important:
Your fixer will be exhausted more rapidly with this film...

The implication in all that Kodak is saying is that if the
film has a magenta cast then the film is not completely
fixed. Quite likely that color cast is due to traces of a
sensitizing dye intimately associated with the
silver halide. I've been able to produce that
magenta cast when testing films for the
least fixer needed to completely clear.

Another source of the color may be insoluble
argentous thiosulfates due to water impurities.
As most know sodium and ammonium thiosulfates
are soluble. But, are calcium, iron, manganese,
lead, and others? The most minute amount of
some dyes can be easily visible. Dan

Papa Tango · Dec 24, 2005

Water chemistry can play a role with certain films, as can the developer. An example is Tri-X. Developed in D-76, HC-110, Neofin, there is no coloration cast. Try the same film in Microdol-X undiluted! Then again in 1:1...

In 4x5 I have found three cures for after-the-fact tinting. The first is a full 45m+ archival wash. Keep the water around 78. Do not do this on thick, soft emulsion films like the slower Efke, or even faster like Bergger/JC/Forte classics. Second is a longer, HCA with a stronger dilution from stock and a lot of active agitation. Look for about 8 minutes. Again, dont do this with the soft films unless you like wrinkling of the emulsion, pinholes, and the image floating around in the solution. Third is time. On some films, the cast simply disappears after many months. I have never had it create an issue for me with VC printing.

haris · Dec 25, 2005

Well, I developed last week one Delta 100, 120 film and got clear base. Two days ago I developed another Delta 100, 120 film and got slight pink base. Developer ID11 (working solution, no dilution), HYPAM fixer and Ilfostop in both cases. I don't use Ilford method for film washing. I use Jobo 1520 tank with cascade film washer, and wash film no less than 15 minutes, usually 30 minutes, even if recommended time with cascade washer is 5 minutes.... But, when made print last night I had no problems, so no reason to think about pink cast on film base ...

lee · Dec 25, 2005

a 2% solution of metaborate soak with the film after fixing helps on most films too.

lee\c

ilford wash method, purple tint

haris

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