Ilford warmtone developer. Not any warmer than Dektol

Roger Cole · Feb 2, 2016

I will certainly try the new Polywarmtone when it becomes available. But I am quite fond of the look I can get with Ilford MGWT FB toned in very dilute brown toner (thanks Drew Wiley for the tip) so I'm not sure it will replace it. It might of course as I'm always open to new materials, or it might just become another choice I use sometimes, or I might not like it at all. It's fun to try new things and see.

Wayne · Feb 2, 2016

Selenium didn't give me what I was looking for. Unadulterated PWT with the right developer is/was the cat's meow

Roger Cole · Feb 2, 2016

I have not actually tried selenium with MGWT. I've only used brown toner (the Freestyle brand of the old Kodak Brown Toner.) I mostly use selenium to slightly cool neutral or cool papers, though I know it can produce various warm tones on warm tone papers when used at stronger dilutions than I use with neutral ones.

RalphLambrecht · Feb 2, 2016

lhalcong said:
This may be a dead horse since I found and read many threads about this. But allow me to bring that horse back up.

I printed the same negative identically and processed in Dektol 1:2 for 2min. And the next in Ilford warmtone 1+9 for 2 min as well. Both at 68F. The paper was Ilford RC pearl. The prints look identical. My eye cannot discern if in fact one is warmer than the other, consequently if There is a difference, it is meaningless.

So I went on to do the next test, printed on Ilford warmtone paper and processed in Dektol and then the same print on Ilford warmtone paper but processed in Ilford warmtone developer. Again the one processed in warmtone developer is not any warmer than the one in Dektol. In other words it did not get any warmer than the natural warm of the paper itself. This makes the Ilford warmtone developer meaningless at least for this purpose.

If you wonder why I did this test, it's because I'm on the quest for warmer portrait tones but the toners I tried so far go beyond the cream warm I'm looking for.

You should look into brief direct poly sulphide toning(no redevelopment)2-4 minutes in this toner will do what you want.Also Ian has a formula for a real warmtone develper but, You need to mix that from scratch yourself.It worked for me and was better than Agfa Neutol warm

kobaltus · Feb 3, 2016

Ian Grant said:
That's as it should be, Iford Multigrade developer was formulated to stop colour shifts at different contrast grades with the Multigrade papers released in the late 1970's. It's colder working than the Ilfospeed developer or PQ Universal then available, Dektol is slightly warm working in comparison.

Ian

Agree about developers. And Ilford Warmtone developer really cause warmer tones. A lot depends on paper base. With old Ilfospeed RC papers the look is quite warm. With new RC multigrade papers with colder paper base the final look is more neutral.

Roger Cole · Feb 3, 2016

RalphLambrecht said:
You should look into brief direct poly sulphide toning(no redevelopment)2-4 minutes in this toner will do what you want.Also Ian has a formula for a real warmtone develper but, You need to mix that from scratch yourself.It worked for me and was better than Agfa Neutol warm

Same thing I was saying, Ralph is just recommending the entire family of toners and I was referring to a specific one, but they do work much alike.

Seriously, variations on this allow a vast range from slightly warmer to rich red-brown. It's a little expensive but readily available, in the US anyway, and a little goes a long way. Even "normal" dilutions are 1+19 and I often use it way, way more diluted than that (like 1/8 oz in a liter of water.)

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/10197-LegacyPro-Brown-Toner-8-oz.

MartinP · Feb 3, 2016

Regarding the question about silver-chloride papers. At least in Europe, Foma Fomalux is easy to get and not too expensive. It is four or five stops slower than normal enlarging paper.

Wayne · Feb 3, 2016

Its also available from Freestyle in the US. I didn't even know it existed. Cool.

Wayne · Feb 3, 2016

Oops, my bad. Still listed but "No longer available" from Freestyle.

mnemosyne · Feb 3, 2016

MartinP said:
Regarding the question about silver-chloride papers. At least in Europe, Foma Fomalux is easy to get and not too expensive. It is four or five stops slower than normal enlarging paper.

Where do you buy this paper? When looking at the Foma webshop the only currently available variety is Fomalux 312 (resin coated) and then only in one size (5x7 inch). My understanding is that Fomalux 111 is a special order paper.

edit: just saw that Fomalux 111 in 12x16 is listed in the fotoimpex webshop

MartinP · Feb 14, 2016

It is available as an ordinary stock item through any European Foma importer. I get mine through Fotohuisrovo, because they are the local supplier and have decent pricing. I know that Macodirect also stocks a wide variety of sizes and there are plenty more possibilities I'm sure.

When you say "the Foma webshop", are you referring to the Scandinavian importer, Fomafoto? That is not the Foma company site, just one of the national/regional distributors. The Foma online-shops run by retailers in Prague seem to sell only to Czech Republic and neighbouring countries -- for the rest of Europe the distributors are efficient and (in NL at least) not too badly priced.

Gerald C Koch · Feb 16, 2016

Ian Grant said:
Dale has it right, you can get excellent warmtones with Ilford Wartone papers and Ilford warmtone developer. How might need to change the way you work ti increase the warmth, that's longer exposures and shorter development time or more dilute developer.

As Ian points out you need a warm tone paper and a warm tone developer. But as Ian also points out you need to develop these papers longer than usual. This usually means using a more dilute developer. Remember that image color is a function of the grain size in the image. The finer the grain the warmer the tone. You might also get better results using an ascorbate based developer as they provide finer grain.

Doc W · Feb 16, 2016

Just yesterday, I was making some prints with Ilford FB WT paper in Dektol 1:3 for three minutes. I liked the results but a friend (another Apugger) who was with me in the darkroom suggested I could get warmer tones with reduced development. I was not convinced but I gave it a go, reducing time to 2 minutes. He was right - there was a visible increase the warmth of the print.

Ian Grant · Feb 17, 2016

Doc W said:
Just yesterday, I was making some prints with Ilford FB WT paper in Dektol 1:3 for three minutes. I liked the results but a friend (another Apugger) who was with me in the darkroom suggested I could get warmer tones with reduced development. I was not convinced but I gave it a go, reducing time to 2 minutes. He was right - there was a visible increase the warmth of the print.

The late Peter Goldfield (who had worked with Minor White) had a trick on workshops. He'd cut a sheet of Warmtone paper into strips exposing each strip for different times, then he'd cut each strip into small squares. Then all went into the developer face up, he'd pull out 4 or 5 every 15 seconds or so a light one then the darkest and two or three in between rinsing and fixing. This all seemed very random until the squares were washed for a couple of minutes and swabbed dry.

It was only then with the lights on he matched approx density squares and you saw the huge difference in warmth/colour, it was rather a neat memorable demonstration. He was using Agfa Record Rapid which still had Cadmium in the emulsion (late 1980's) and that gave a much greater colour shift compared to modern Warmtone papers but there's still a reasonable shift due to development alone and it's more natural than toning.

Ian

Ilford warmtone developer. Not any warmer than Dektol

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