Ilford vs. Kodak film bases..wiping spots.

Hatchetman · Mar 2, 2015

Maybe someone can help me understand what is going on here. I occasionally get water spots on my film, usually on the frame I want to print. Recently I have taken a very lightly damp soft cotton cloth and wiped them off the non-emulsion side (spots are always on non-emulsion side). Seemed to work pretty well. I had been using Ilford 35mm films of various types. However, when I tried this on Tri-X (120), the cloth wanted to "stick" to the film base. It immediately got tacky and "swollen" unlike the Ilford. That was definitely NOT what I wanted as cotton fibers would stick on there.

What's the difference in the films? why did my method work with the Ilford, but not Tri-X?

AgX · Mar 2, 2015

The base sides of film can be coated with different kinds of a layer.
Typically type 120 films got a non-curling layer at the base side.

Hatchetman · Mar 2, 2015

No, it was Tri-X 400. What AgX said makes sense if true. It's no big deal, from now on I'll just be careful what I'm doing.

bernard_L · Mar 2, 2015

I occasionally get water spots on my film

After normal wash, distilled/deionized water with PhotoFlo 1/600. Do not wipe. Hang to dry away from air drafts. Simple.

outwest · Mar 2, 2015

Or, cover the reel in the tank with distilled water, add 2 drops of Edwal LFN, swirl and let soak for 2 minutes remove and hang. No chance of it building up on the reels like Photoflow.

Jim17x · Mar 2, 2015

bernard_L said:
After normal wash, distilled/deionized water with PhotoFlo 1/600. Do not wipe. Hang to dry away from air drafts. Simple.

+1
I haven't had a water spot in 10 years doing it this way.

Hatchetman · Mar 2, 2015

outwest said:
Or, cover the reel in the tank with distilled water, add 2 drops of Edwal LFN, swirl and let soak for 2 minutes remove and hang. No chance of it building up on the reels like Photoflow.

I essentially do this, but use the Photographer's Formulary version, the name of which escapes me. I only do a final rinse of about 30 seconds. Since adopting this method, my spots have diminished greatly from using PhotoFlo at Kodak's dilution rate. But I still get a few spots. The film may be drying too quickly as my house is extremely dry in the winter. I don't know.

Rick A · Mar 2, 2015

While the film is still in the reel, shake as much excess water off as possible, then hang to dry.

brian steinberger · Mar 2, 2015

I have found photo flo to be completely unnecessary. Unfortunately it took me years of trial and error to figure this out. Now I no longer get any marks on my negs. Perfectly clean. The key it to do a final rinse in distilled water. I actually do two. After the wash with tap water I dump the tank, and fill with distilled water. Agitate 20 times then let sit for a minute. I then dump and do this again (not sure if it would be needed but I'm paranoid after years of random drying marks) and then I take the film off the reel and hold the film at each end and run it through the distilled water one last time in a nice even fashion lifting it up and out of the water. Then I hold at a 45 degree angle and let most of the water run off. Then hang to dry, no wiping. That simple.

gone · Mar 2, 2015

I never get water spots. A-always use distilled water if possible. B-wash film for at least 30 minutes. C- take film reels out of developing tank and uncoil the film. Have a gradient w/ about 3" of Photo-Flo standing ready, and slowly dip the film into this, letting it coil up (this will mean you won't have to scrub the reels and tank later to get the Photo-Flo off). D-take one end of the film, hold tightly, and whip it like a, well, whip. Do this a few times to get the excess water off. E-using clips that are wide enough to grab the entire width of the film, hang it to dry in the bathroom. F-cut and sleeve after it is COMPLETELY dry.

If you do this, I guarantee you will not have water stains on the negs no matter what film you shoot. I also don't think its a good idea to wipe the film, or have anything touch it at any time except the developing chemicals and Photo-Flo.

Gerald C Koch · Mar 2, 2015

If you use Photo-Flo make sure not to use too much as it can cause greasy spots. Two to five drops of PF 200 forr each 250 ml of water is sufficient. You only need to break the surface tension of the water for it to do its job.

Hatchetman · Mar 2, 2015

OK, OK. What if worst-case, you DO get a spot. Now what should I do? Re-wash the roll and hope the spot moves somewhere else?

Gerald C Koch · Mar 2, 2015

It depends on what is making the spot. For example if it is from hardness in the wash water then the acid in a stop bath should remove it. For the greasy spots caused by too much Photo-Flo use isopropyl alcohol on a soft cloth. So in general just saying you have a spot is not sufficient to pinpoint a remedy.

MaryGriffin · Mar 30, 2015

I heard a lot about this problem with water spots. But I usually use Slavich photo paper or film and have never had such a problem with it.

1920 · Mar 31, 2015

PF Photo Flo

I have the stuff from the Formulary- but I have been taking the rolls out of the reel first, then pouring it down over the reels (stainless steel type).

Reason being I was paranoid about the stuff building up on the reels like I remember Photo Flo used to do (sort of a greasy soapy buildup).

Is this not the case with the P Formulary product? Should I just put it in the tank with the reels? Sure would be easier.

drpsilver · Mar 31, 2015

bernard_L said:
After normal wash, distilled/deionized water with PhotoFlo 1/600. Do not wipe. Hang to dry away from air drafts. Simple.

30 Mar 2015

I have been using the above procedure for almost 2 decades with no water spot problems on 35mm, 120, or 4x5 negatives. For me, the only changes to the above is that I wash with tap water, and use Photo-Flo at 1:300.

Regards,
Darwin

RattyMouse · Mar 31, 2015

Rick A said:
While the film is still in the reel, shake as much excess water off as possible, then hang to dry.

What a brilliant idea!!! I wish I thought of this....a few hundred rolls ago!!!

Awesome post you have there.

R.Gould · Mar 31, 2015

With 35mm use wetting agent in final rinse, then take a sheet of kitchen towel, fold it up and wipe the shiny, non emulsion, side of the film, do it twice, once on one side of the folded kitchen towel, then turn over and use other side, works for any film, Kodak, Ilford or Foma, and has never stuck to a film in over 20 years of doing this, and no drying marks or scratches in over 20 years, never ever use anything on the emulsion side of the film,.with 120 soak, shake the reel, hang up to dry
Richard

baachitraka · Mar 31, 2015

After 30s soak in Photo flo and I do what Rick A has said. No marks since two years...

Ilford vs. Kodak film bases..wiping spots.

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