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Ilford shooting itself in the foot

I just bought about 3 years worth of kodak film because I expect bad things of silver prices. Guess I'll have to stop buying gear and horde paper instead.
 

What I would be curious to know, is the problem with CR's (who really don't care) or with Ilford?
 
I just hope Ilford sticks it out. If they are the only ones left then they will have a proportionately larger market with which to contend than now with the Kodak- and Fuji-hangers-on.
 
Christopher Walrath said:
I just hope Ilford sticks it out. If they are the only ones left then they will have a proportionately larger market with which to contend than now with the Kodak- and Fuji-hangers-on.
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Didn't Simon say somewhere around here that Ilford's plan was to be "The last man standing" when the game is finally over?
 
ntenny said:
I wish they didn't have to raise their prices, but if they have to, I'd rather they do it than not! I mean, what's the alternative?

-NT
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The "alternative" to Ilford just raising their prices alone (and I am well aware that in this speculative silver market Ilford has little choice), is that Ilford makes an urgent plea to their distributors and the shops they are supplying, to lower their profit margins while the factory prices go up, to keep the overall product price for the consumer at an acceptable level.

I have never heard Ilford doing this, but just think of this and a probably doubling of price in the last 5 years.:

A box of photo paper may have been sold for 10 dollars by Ilford 5 years ago.

With two distributors down the chain using a mark up of 50% on the product, it would end up being sold to the shops for some $22,50. Now, the shop raises the price again by 50%: $33,75 dollar, making a profit of $11,25.

Today, 5 years later, the same box of photo paper that Ilford now sells for 20 dollars, now earns that shop owner $22,50 at a real sale price to the consumer - us! - of $67,50.

Is that reasonable, a change in profit from 11,25 to 22,50 in 5 years? Have salaries of the shop personal gone up 100% too? In fact, while Ilford is succumbing, the few remaining end shops selling to consumers might be making more money from analog products than ever (although its probably hard times for most of them too)

If the whole chain of distributors and end shops had been willing to absorb some of the pain by lowering product margins a bit, prices might have stayed a bit more reasonable... and us photographers actually able to buy the products!
 
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I heard Danny Lyon say once that "film was expensive in the early 60's". He complained that he had to pay $1 a roll for Tri-X bulk loaded. Do the math on that to put it in current prices. $1 in 1961 had the same buying power as $7.32 today.

Film is cheap folks.
 

I agree.

I do price shop, but as hobbies go this isn't bad.
 
It's not just silver prices, here in the UK it is distribution costs caused by rocketing fuel prices that are as much to blame. This isn't such bad news from Ilford as it is from other manufacturers who are mistakenly trying to absorb the increases: now there is a slippery slope. So, better than Ilford taking the hit and jeopardising production. And if your budget is too tight to accomodate the increase, buy 7 rolls a year instead of 10, or 70 instead of 100, it's, hopefully, what Ilford can count upon.
 
i have no problem with the price going up because the price of silver has gone up, however when have you seen the price go down because the cost of silver has dropped . i just bought some silver futures. i am sure after doing this as all way's it will fall like a rock and i will lose money. so maybe the price will fall
mitch
 
It isn't the case that, in the short term at least, if the price of silver goes up the price must go up. They can hedge the cost of silver, assuming they anticipated the rise. If the price of silver then goes back down to more reasonable levels prior to the hedge running out they will have weathered the storm.
 
I've always preferred Kodak film anyway, and have a hard time understanding why people here are so hostile to Kodak. They make film that, to me, has better tonality and finer grain and costs a hell of a lot less than Ilford. I'll keep using Tmax 100 and 3200 and Tri-X till Kodak quits making them. I spend about $2000 a year on Kodak film, so I'm doing my part to support the manufacturers whose products I like.
 

Wait till the end of the year before you do anything. Also, look at the year preceding graph to get an idea on silver prices.
Btw, you should be into bullion not paper.
 
I plan to continue printing as long as Harmon and others manufacture film and paper. After that I will continue with hand coated tissue and other alt processes.
Printing and processing prices will be adjusted and thats that.

IMHO Use it or lose it , may sum it up for me, complaining about the price of materials to make prints or the loss of products would have stopped me when Ilford stopped making ILfomar, or Kodak stopped making Ectalure.
The manufacturers needs fiscally to keep open are really not my business.

This is my profession and my hobby, maybe an expensive one, but so is that stupid game golf, I much prefer creating images.
 
Hi Marco,
You're comments about margins at the store make sense if the mark-up is 50%. I own a retail store. The mark-up on film and paper is not near 50%. The only items in the film industry with near this type of mark-up are filters... and that's because I stock some weird IR and Infrared Filters in weird sizes for rangefinder lenses... and they still don't cost that much. Film, paper and chemicals don't have a mark-up near 50%. At least not around here.
-Rob
 
It's a catch 22 situation. I used to shoot a decent amount of Delta3200 (circa 20 rolls a month). Then a few years ago the price went up substantially. Back in London it was around 7 pounds a rolls. So, I had to switch to Tri-X pushed to 1200. But believe me, I would rather shoot Delta3200. So, as a result Ilford didn't get anymore of my money and if their sales drop etc etc etc. It's just a vicious cycle...
 
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I prefer Ilford's continued survival, as opposed to the alternative. It's not a large chunk of money out of my budget, compared with food, rent, heat...
 
aluncrockford said:
I have just been told by my supplier that all Ilford film and paper prices will rise by 30% in February, the company has put the blame on silver prices.
Thank goodness for Adox
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Reading that again, your supplier has said that Ilford prices will rise by 30%.
And "tells you" that the company has put the blame on silver prices, thereby shifting responsibility for the whole increase back to the start of the supply chain?

Obviously silver prices have risen, but they are only a small part of the material, production and overhead factory costs. So, how much of the rise is attributable to an actual increase by Ilford themselves, and how much is to the retailer, wholesaler and importer, transport costs and exchange rates?

Without knowing these, it's a huge jump in logic to say that "Ilford have shot themselves in the foot"! It seems rather like the scare headlines used by some tabloid newspapers.....just pick out the sensational bit that the reader wants to believe and forget any facts or depth in the reporting....
 
I've already started looking at buying my film online. I live in Los Angeles which has the highest sales tax in the US. If I can buy enough rolls from an online source to avoid the shipping costs at least I'm saving a bundle on the tax. I'd love to purchase locally, but these prices are squeezing me too much. It's unfortunate that we likely won't see prices drop either once the price of silver drops. Likewise, I may have to give up shooting Delta 3200 in favor of pushing a slower film
 
Yes, retailers often don't know what they're saying or will BS you about price increases. Could be Ilford but until I see an official announcement I'm waiting a bit. Could be too late but I don't have an empty freezer at the moment so wait I must.
 
I agree,
For some of us photography is very important and one of the necessity's of our day to day life.

flatulent1 said:
I prefer Ilford's continued survival, as opposed to the alternative. It's not a large chunk of money out of my budget, compared with food, rent, heat...
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Does it really make a difference what the reason is behind a price increase? It's always to maintain/or increase a profit margin. That's the only two options.

The consumer then determines if the price increase will hold, or not, by their spending habits.
 
chriscrawfordphoto said:
I've always preferred Kodak film anyway, and have a hard time understanding why people here are so hostile to Kodak. They make film that, to me, has better tonality and finer grain and costs a hell of a lot less than Ilford.
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I dont know about your format, but Kodak isn't cheaper if you shoot B&W sheet film. Its not even close
 
related thread: Adox raising their prices by 25% ??

In the thread about ADOX raising it's prices

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Simon Galley made a couple of posts on this and how Ilford was proceeding.
His statement "when you have to buy silver by the tonne its a huge increase in raw material costs" was followed by this "We have NOT increased our prices, but we are obviously monitoring and reviewing the situation on a daily basis".
Now that was at the end of November and Silver continues to rise....
 

A big part of the reason for the current price of silver is speculation. Thanks Mitch.
 
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