Ilford SFX 200, What do you know?

JMC1969 · Oct 22, 2008

The lab I work in recently started carrying film since no one anywhere around here does. I am very familiar with most of the films we got in (Ilford and Fuji) but not with the Ilford SFX 200. I have read the data sheets and a few things after a search. I have never really shot Infrared films and only mildly understand the workings.

What I have learned:

1. Red has the longest wave length
2. Visual light ends around 700nm (nanometers, had to look that one up)
3. Infrared is a electromagnetic radiation with a wavelength between 750nm and 1mm.

4. Ilford calls this film Extended Red sensitivity because it records only to 740nm, therfore not a true infrared film.

5. You can shoot it with the special SFX filter fro Ilford, red filter,Orange, etc.. for desired effect.

So what does all of this mean? What can I expect? What is the goal while shooting it?

I have seen a lot of samples people have posted and the closest thing I can say it reminds me of is a subdued solarized look. Most every shot was of a landscape. My biggest question is, Can you shoot this film in very low light and pick up images you would otherwise not be able to see? Nightvision, but B&W.

Thank you for your input and time
Jody

pentaxuser · Oct 22, 2008

Basic answer to the last Q is No. The so called "wood effect" i.e. green leaves and grass turned white is missing with SFX unless you use the SF filter. Provided it is shot in sunlight, a mid-red filter will however produce black skies and a slight unworldly look, asking the question: Is it brilliant sunlight or brilliant moonlight?

A benefit of SFX is that without filters it behaves as a normal ISO 200 film so it's versatile. Especially handy in the U.K. where we get all 4 seasons in the same afternoon.

It's about handholdable with the SFX filter with an aperture of f5.6 unlike some others which are more IR but need a tripod.

pentaxuser

johnnywalker · Oct 22, 2008

I remember somebody saying it was nice for portraits, but I forget the circumstances (if indeed I'm remembering correctly). In any case, sfx has some very nice effects with a red filter. Try combining a red 25 with a polarizer on a bright day for some other-worldly effects.

jim appleyard · Oct 22, 2008

Perhaps it was me (or I, if we want to be proper) who said something about portraits. Yes, it's nice for portraits. I photographed a Lebanese woman (born here, but parents from Lebanon) who hates having her photo taken and is not happy with any photo of herself. I had her dress in traditional Lebanese stuff (masked face, etc.) and shot her with SFX and the R72 filter. She loved it! It came out very grainy and did a nice job of hiding skin imperfections. She had to hold still as I had a slow shutter speed with the filter on.

I like this film, but don't get the chance to shoot it as often as I'd like. True, it's not a IR film, but with the filter, you get an IR effect.

You don't have to do a focus shift with SFX as you did with HIE. You can load in the daylight and soup in just about any dev. To be honest, I can't tell the difference between SFX negs souped in Rodinal or D-76 stock.

I use it mostly outdoors when the leaves are on the trees and go for a bright day. I always use a tripod and go for f/22 and get max DOF.

No, this film doesn't pick up body heat, etc.

bdial · Oct 22, 2008

I've not had good luck in getting infrared or similar effects from it, but it yields nice results otherwise, YMMV. It's a little grainy compared to "conventional" films - my opinion.
In any case it won't get you nightvision. No film will without long exposures or exotic processing. Nightvision devices work by electronically amplifying what light is available. Pick up a roll and try it out.
BTW, I'm impressed that your shop just decided to start carrying it. I had to special order it, and the shop I bought it from never has stocked it.

JMC1969 · Oct 22, 2008

Thanks for the feedback. Honestly I assumed that it wasn't magic and let you take a visible shot in the dark. But, after reading about Infrared it had me questioning if I was the only one with the sheets pulled over my eyes. I did already set aside a roll 120, but in need of a bay 1 filter as all my medium format are TLR. I can't wait to try it out.

Also, while reading about infrared photography it was mentioned that on most older cameras I would find a red diamond on the lens that indicates focus for infrared film. I have a Canon F-1 and each lens has a red dot (on the 135mm it is to the right at almost the 16) is this the "focus shift" Jim Appleyard is referring to? and why do you need to do it.

I'm glad to hear it does well for skin tones, because my wife ends up being a major subject (like it or not).

bdial, love the Vonnegut, I have no idea what YMMV means and the shop is taking a slow dive into retail. We have been a lab (process,print,scan) for a long time and the last "real" camera shop in town closed at the beginning of the year. Being that we are the last place anywhere near here to process medium and large format (E6,C-41,B&W), we thought we were the likely ones to pick up the slack for supplies. There is a need to walk into a store and put your hands on a roll/sheets and shoot now without the planning of ordering and waiting. Immediate gratification! My picture is next to this phrase.

Sirius Glass · Oct 22, 2008

jerk151 said:
... I have no idea what YMMV means ...

YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary

Steve

JMC1969 · Oct 22, 2008

Sirius Glass said:
YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary

Steve

Ahhh, That is a new one for me, thanks

jim appleyard · Oct 23, 2008

Yes, "focus shift" was for true IR films like Kodaks HIE. IR is not visible light and needed to be focused differently. You would focus normally, look at the distance on the scale, say 10 feet, and then rotate the focusing ring until the 10 foot mark was lined up with the red diamond. I never had very sharp photos when doing this and along with other quirks with IR films made me give up on it.

With SFX, you just focus normally.

Shangheye · Oct 23, 2008

I have just shot two rolls and expect to soup them in the next week...so may post a sample. I can't see how you could hand hold with the SF filter, since it is so thick you can't see through it. The filter correction is 4 stops!!....i.e. effectively ISO 12....so using it at any time other than bright sun is hard to imagine..and I believe that is when you get the best effect anyway. Did not try it with a Red 25, but I do have one more roll...so may try it for portraits etc..Rgds, Kal

Terence · Oct 23, 2008

I love SFX in 120 with a red filter for several subjects. Partly cloudy skies produce black skies and white clouds.

Steel, particularly old steel with some rust, provides excellent tone separation. Old steel railroad bridges that are riveted are my favorite. You'll get dark steel with bright rivet heads. The same is true for old machinery, rusty vehicles, trains, etc.

Steve Smith · Oct 23, 2008

Terence said:
I love SFX in 120 with a red filter for several subjects.

Do you treat it the same way as a standard film with a filter?

e.g. start at ISO 200 then add three stops for the red filter.

Steve.

Aurum · Oct 23, 2008

Steve Smith said:
Do you treat it the same way as a standard film with a filter?

e.g. start at ISO 200 then add three stops for the red filter.

Steve.

Thats how I do it. Frame and meter for ISO 200, pop the filter on, then either open the aperture or slow the shutter by a total of 4 stops, press and hope, as you can't see anything using a Deep Red/IR SFX style filter on a SLR.
For a TLR or rangefinder, you'd have no problems at all. In fact these are the cameras that probably work best in this situation

For handholding, realistically you need a nice sunny day.
Results are worth it mind

hughitb · Oct 23, 2008

Terence said:
Steel, particularly old steel with some rust, provides excellent tone separation. Old steel railroad bridges that are riveted are my favorite. You'll get dark steel with bright rivet heads. The same is true for old machinery, rusty vehicles, trains, etc.

Yeah I would concur with this. I have used it as a more or less normal film with an orange filter. You can still hand-hold it and you get great detailed rich contrast out of things like those mentioned above. It's worked great for me in conditions where the lighting is fairly diffuse as it seems to drag out contrast which you wouldn't get otherwise. I find though if I am using it in harsh sunlight where there is lots of contrast there anyway, it's pretty hard to control and can as often go terribly wrong as it can right. Just got another 10 rolls of it in the post today so am looking forward to doing some more experimentation ....

Terence · Oct 23, 2008

Steve Smith said:
Do you treat it the same way as a standard film with a filter?

e.g. start at ISO 200 then add three stops for the red filter.

Steve.

For bright, partly cloudy days, I normally give it half to a full stop over the metered reading adjusted for the filter factor (I use 3 stops for my Red #25), but I think it's out of habit more than any huge difference in effect.

Maris · Oct 23, 2008

It is possible to see through the Ilford SFX filter in daylight. At first glance it looks completely black but that is because eyes adapted to sunlight won't register the faint deep red light that comes through.

Hold the filter very close to the eye for thirty seconds or more. The eye dark-adapts and, voila!, you can see "infrared". The view through the filter, although deep red, is tonally close to what will register on SFX film.

Without this preview technique exposing unfamiliar subject matter through the SFX filter can degenerate into a shoot 'n hope exercise. SFX is expensive film and it becomes much more pleasant to use if you know you will get a high proportion of useable frames.

titrisol · Oct 27, 2008

SFX200 works great with a Wratten 89b or any other 720nm filter.
With such filter the efffective speed goes down to 12 or 16 (so 1/15s f/16 or 1/60 f/5.6) if you meter off camera or without the filter.
The IR effects are moderate but look good once printed.

Look for a good review of different films here:
http://www.cocam.co.uk/CoCamWS/Infrared/INFRARED.HTM#ILF2
Also look for Pauck and infrared, he had a very nice page with fotos and everything

jerk151 said:
The lab I work in recently started carrying film since no one anywhere around here does. I am very familiar with most of the films we got in (Ilford and Fuji) but not with the Ilford SFX 200. I have read the data sheets and a few things after a search. I have never really shot Infrared films and only mildly understand the workings.

What I have learned:

1. Red has the longest wave length
2. Visual light ends around 700nm (nanometers, had to look that one up)
3. Infrared is a electromagnetic radiation with a wavelength between 750nm and 1mm.

4. Ilford calls this film Extended Red sensitivity because it records only to 740nm, therfore not a true infrared film.

5. You can shoot it with the special SFX filter fro Ilford, red filter,Orange, etc.. for desired effect.

So what does all of this mean? What can I expect? What is the goal while shooting it?

I have seen a lot of samples people have posted and the closest thing I can say it reminds me of is a subdued solarized look. Most every shot was of a landscape. My biggest question is, Can you shoot this film in very low light and pick up images you would otherwise not be able to see? Nightvision, but B&W.

Thank you for your input and time
Jody

thefizz · Oct 27, 2008

The best feature of this film is its exposure latitude. Its way more forgiving than the Rollei or Efke IR films.

Peter

2F/2F · Oct 27, 2008

I really like SFX200 unfiltered. The color response makes it look rather unique, though very subtly.

For crazy IR effects I prefer Efke IR820 with an R72. Its 720nM cutoff makes it so the film only responds to energy from 720nM to 820nM. The problem is that it is slow as molasses, with EIs well under 1 in bright sun.

I believe that an R72 is equiv. to a Wratten 89B or Heliopan RG715 (close, anyhow). I am not sure where the B&W 092 cuts off, but it is another commonly available IR filter that would probably work.

P.S. Just checked. The 092 cuts off energy below 650nM.

Terence · Oct 27, 2008

Easily the most useful page of the internet regarding IR filters:
http://photo.net/photo/edscott/ir000020.htm

Unfortunately it doesn't have the newer films on the page, but the manufacturers typical provide it.

Radioiron · Oct 27, 2008

I got some very interesting results, It was the first IR film I tried and I wasn't dazzled by the shots with a filter, but unfiltered it gave a very nice graduation and reminded me of old films.
Will try to scan a print of a double exposure self portrait. The soft graduation gave a nice addition to the effect of a ghost image I was after.
Another was an indoor still life, possibly from the tungsten light, it was very pleasing to the eye and the grain was pleasing with the soft graduation.

JMC1969 · Oct 28, 2008

So far it sounds like it will be fun. I have been unable to find Bay 1 filters at an affordable cost for my TLR, so I have not shot any as of yet. However, I found a orange rollei bay 1 and a H-1 Rollei bay 1, so I am going to try out the Orange w/ the SFX. Can anyone give me an idea of how much to open up with the Orange filter?

Thanks for all the response.

Jody

Shangheye · Oct 28, 2008

check out the documentation on http://www.ilfordphoto.com/products/product.asp?n=12&t=Consumer+&+Professional+Films# All the information you need is there for filter compenstaions etc (it says for 21 Orange compensate 1 1/3 stops), including the development requirements. For an idea of what it looks like with an SFX filter, see here (there was a url link here which no longer exists) . Rgds, kal

titrisol · Oct 28, 2008

Look for a gel adapter/holder for your bay 1 and some gel filters
that is generally easier and cheaper

jerk151 said:
So far it sounds like it will be fun. I have been unable to find Bay 1 filters at an affordable cost for my TLR, so I have not shot any as of yet. However, I found a orange rollei bay 1 and a H-1 Rollei bay 1, so I am going to try out the Orange w/ the SFX. Can anyone give me an idea of how much to open up with the Orange filter?

Thanks for all the response.

Jody

Steve Smith · Oct 28, 2008

jerk151 said:
So far it sounds like it will be fun. I have been unable to find Bay 1 filters at an affordable cost for my TLR

If you have a spare/broken bay 1 filter you could remove the glass and glue a piece of the Ilford gel filter to the front of it.

I could send you a piece if you want it. I have the remains of an Ilford square gel filter as I have already sent someone else a piece for a similar purpose.

I intend to try it on my Rolleicord with a red filter as suggested earlier.

Steve.

Ilford SFX 200, What do you know?

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