Ilford RC paper 15min wet time - really???

Steve Goldstein · Jun 4, 2020

I was just looking at the technical info sheet for Ilford RC printing papers and noticed two things - the 2 minute(!) running-water wash and the recommendation to limit wet time to 15 minutes. Huh? I use RC for proof sheets, and since I don't really enjoy proofing I do a batch every few months. As with my prints on fiber paper, I let the proofs sit in the HCA tray until I have enough to fill the washer, then pop them in. This often means well over an hour of wet time, and I've never run into a problem. It saves water and I don't have to be constantly running in and out of the darkroom (my darkroom is tiny so my print-drying area is somewhere else.)

Has anyone here actually experienced the "edge penetration and print curl" issues Ilford mentions? How bad is it?

cramej · Jun 4, 2020

Yes. It will ruin the edges of a print by causing the paper to swell and can allow staining. I remember it happening years ago in my college darkroom where many of us just let prints hang out in the washer while we worked.

Paul Howell · Jun 4, 2020

Not with Ilford, but in I had issues with my batch of Kodak Polycontrast II RC. I currently use Ultrafine or Multitone RC for work prints before I move on the FB papers have left them in the wash for way more than 30mints. But Ilford says that you wash as little as 15 seconds under running water.

Down Under · Jun 4, 2020

Paul Howell said:
Not with Ilford, but in I had issues with my batch of Kodak Polycontrast II RC. I currently use Ultrafine or Multitone RC for work prints before I move on the FB papers have left them in the wash for way more than 30mints. But Ilford says that you wash as little as 15 seconds under running water.

Too true. Kodak's Polycontrast in its early versions was the devil's own invention - I used a lot of it in the 1960s and 1970s and it seemed to me that every so-called 'improvement' in this paper just made it worse. Lots of curl, endless contrast shifts, inconsistent fading and staining problems with one sheet from a batch changing colors in one or two years but the next sheet remaining perfect. It drove me back to Kodabromide graded paper and eventually to Ilford Multigrade, which improved sufficiently when III came out that I've stayed with it through its later avatars (IV etc) since - no surprise as the Kodak papers were all discontinued, ha!.

By my wet-finger calculation I've made several hundred thousand prints in my time (1961-now) and I'm convinced RC papers from the 1980s onward made my time in the darkroom so much better. The <15 minute wet time is achievable and practical if you adjust your workflow accordingly and take a few seconds to properly dry and hang your good prints (bin the bad ones) as you process them. It's really all about printing for quality over quantity.

MattKing · Jun 4, 2020

There is no advantage to using HCA with RC papers. And after two minutes in the wash, they air dry easily in a record rack - something like this:

mshchem · Jun 4, 2020

Yep, the hypo clearing agent is more about getting the bad stuff out of the fiber base. I use HCA on TMax films to get the purple out.

I follow the Ilford recommended times, I go from fixer, quick 20 seconds in a tray of water, then Kodak rapid selenium toner, rinse, running water wash.When I get a few prints in the wash I squeegee the print face down, dry with a Ilford dryer.
The record rack is a great idea. I am going to be looking for one, dish racks, not so good.

Paul Howell · Jun 4, 2020

Not knowing who makes Ultrafine or Mulitone I stick with Foma's recommendation, I add 30 seconds in Permawash, so 1 mint wash, 30 seconds Permawash, 2 mint wash, dry or tone, second 2 mint wash. I dry on screen on my patio,here in the low desert, today's humidity was 9% 112F dry in no time.

ic-racer · Jun 4, 2020

You don't have a test print to soak overnight? Try it and see. I just did two 16x20 on Ilford MG RC and washed them together. It took about 20 minutes to setup the enlarger for the second print, not including processing the second print. Both were fine. I ran into trouble with RC in the past when I left the prints in the wash bath over night.
The prints are not totally ruined but they won't flatten nice like a curly FB print.

revdoc · Jun 5, 2020

It's uncommon, but I've had Ilford paper show edge penetration after maybe 20 minutes in the wash. It also happened with some Foma paper a while ago, but I'd expect it from a cheaper product. The edge penetration showed up as a winding line of swelling, a few cm long, kind like a worm had burrowed into the paper.

Back in the 90s I used to dump Ilford RC prints into a bucket of water until the session was over, and never had a problem. On the other hand, I'm now making full use of the shorter processing time, so it's not all bad news.

pentaxuser · Jun 5, 2020

My experience of RC sitting in water for more than 15 mins is confined to a nightschool darkroom class where the prints after fixing were placed in large bath of water and left there until the end of the 3 hour session when we all queued to.use the instant drying machine that churned out wet to dry prints in about 10 secs. We were required to submit prints as part of a City and Guilds course on which we were judged on the prints and other written course work so time for printing was at a premium and we couldn't afford time to pull and dry prints after 15 mins. Consequently prints done in the early part of the session were often in the holding bath for more than an hour. As we were all beginners ignorance was bliss and I do not recall the instructor telling us to pull the prints from the water within 15 mins. I had none of my prints had any problems and I can't recall any other student mentioning a problem either.

We were probably printing from session 3-4 so that was 20 students who printed may be 8 prints each for submission and left them in the water for longer than 15 mins. So conservatively at least 160 prints with no reports of damage

Is it something you should aim to do, confident that nothing bad will ever happen - probably not( for a start it wastes water and achieve nothing) but on the other hand fs it happens occasionally then you may be very unlucky if something were to happen

pentaxuser

grainyvision · Jun 8, 2020

I've noticed that extending the wet time beyond recommended can cause a weird change to the way the Ilford RC paper handles. It becomes more likely to ruined edges, but also can sometimes get this weird thing that feels like a bubble in the middle of the paper after ~1 hour. Personally I do a 1 minute warm running water wash after TF-4 fixing and my hypo tests always indicate that it's good. RC paper really doesn't need much rinsing to clear off all the hypo. Even after just a 15s quick rinse it's passes as a "good" but not perfect rating with my hypo test.

mooseontheloose · Jun 9, 2020

As I usually print in batches (contact sheets, postcard exchange), my wet times for RC paper usually run from 30 minutes (minimum) to 2 hours - I've never had an issue. Yes, the corners can separate a tiny bit but I've never experienced any of the problems people have mentioned above.

Steve Roberts · Jun 9, 2020

My Ilford RC paper normally sits around in the post-fix water bath followed by the wash for up to a couple of hours and I've never had any problem. Following the recommended wash/dry procedure would involve me in a huge number of trips up and down the stairs and reduce my print throughput per session by about two thirds, so it's a non-starter.
Steve

Nige · Jun 9, 2020

mshchem said:
The record rack is a great idea. I am going to be looking for one, dish racks, not so good.

I use vertical file from an Office Suppliers. Like this

markbau · Jun 9, 2020

Steve Goldstein said:
I was just looking at the technical info sheet for Ilford RC printing papers and noticed two things - the 2 minute(!) running-water wash and the recommendation to limit wet time to 15 minutes. Huh? I use RC for proof sheets, and since I don't really enjoy proofing I do a batch every few months. As with my prints on fiber paper, I let the proofs sit in the HCA tray until I have enough to fill the washer, then pop them in. This often means well over an hour of wet time, and I've never run into a problem. It saves water and I don't have to be constantly running in and out of the darkroom (my darkroom is tiny so my print-drying area is somewhere else.)

Has anyone here actually experienced the "edge penetration and print curl" issues Ilford mentions? How bad is it?

There was a thread here not long ago about the new Ilford RC papers, I got horrendous curling due to long wet times, I now limit wet times to a few minutes and the problem disappeared.

Steve Goldstein · Jun 9, 2020

Thanks to all who responded. I modified my working procedure to reduce wet times to at most 30 minutes and experienced no issues.

MattKing · Jun 9, 2020

Nige said:
I use vertical file from an Office Suppliers. Like this

My 1970s vintage record racks actually look more like that than the record rack images I could find quickly on the internet - thanks for the link!

mshchem · Jun 9, 2020

Nige said:
I use vertical file from an Office Suppliers. Like this

Yes, that looks great.

mshchem · Jun 10, 2020

Nige said:
I use vertical file from an Office Suppliers. Like this

I found one of these used in a junk store, for 2 dollars today. I never would have thought of this. Perfect size.

Ilford RC paper 15min wet time - really???

Steve Goldstein

cramej

Paul Howell

Down Under

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Steve Roberts

Nige

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Steve Goldstein

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mshchem

mshchem

Ilford RC paper 15min wet time - really???

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