Ilford rapid fixer Vs TF5

[ronlamarsh]

Any thoughts as to which is a better value for the dollar...Ilford rapidfix or photographers formulary TF5?

 

[jmcd]

TF5 exhausts very rapidly with some films, because it cannot handle their high iodide content. TF-5 mixes readily and works well with paper, but it is recommended that you use distilled water to make the working solution.

So, if you want to use the fixer for film and paper, Ilford is more versatile. Very good product.

 

[jmcd]

I don't know about the cost breakdown, but another option is to use TF4 for film, and TF5 for paper.

 

[Curt]

Explain the differences between tf4 an tf5 please.

 

[bwrules]

I am guessing TF-5 probably washes out faster out of paper. TF-4 is a very nice, very fast fixer though.

 

[chriscrawfordphoto]

TF-4 is an alkaline fixer. I use it with Pyro developers, but its a pain to use because it comes in a bottle where the chemical is powder at the bottom of the bottle of water and it only dissolves when you dilute the stock solution in the bottle with water to make the working strength, so you cannot really mix up small amounts, you have to mix the whole bottle at once. Ilford is just easier to work with for normal film processing, and I can buy it locally without paying high shipping on heavy jugs of chemicals.

 

[cjbecker]

I have never used the ilford rapid fix bit I am using tf4 and really like it. I am using it with hp5 and am about 20 rolls in and it still with passes the test in under 30 seconds. I like it because of the fast fix and wash time.

 

[heespharm]

I currently use both... I like rapid fix for film but it has a long wash time because it's an alkaline fixer so I don't use it for paper... Wth paper an alkaline fixer (tf5) is preferrable due to shorter wash times and no need for hypo clear


As far as cost efficiency, I think it's a little cheaper using ilford... But cheaper isn't always better.... If you wanna go cheap mix your own tf2 (alkaline non rapid fixer)

 

[bwrules]

TF-4 is an alkaline fixer. I use it with Pyro developers, but its a pain to use because it comes in a bottle where the chemical is powder at the bottom of the bottle of water and it only dissolves when you dilute the stock solution in the bottle with water to make the working strength, so you cannot really mix up small amounts, you have to mix the whole bottle at once.

I just shake the bottle and mix the more concentrated stuff at the bottom evenly, then pour the amount I need out.

 

[ronlamarsh]

fixer

Thanks for the input. I use kodak rapid fix for my films as I have found TF5 and 4 do exhaust more rapidly. I am mainly concerned with ilford vs formulary for use on paper. I almost always use TF5 as I can buy it locally but I have been given a gift cert for Amazon and I can the ilford product there but the TF5 is out of stock. So

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

I just shake the bottle and mix the more concentrated stuff at the bottom evenly, then pour the amount I need out.

Me too. Been using T-4 for fixing my films for years. I shake up my gallon jug of concertrate to get the white stuff on the bottom all mixed up, pour out 250ml of that into a 1000ml measuring cup, add 750ml of distilled water, stir this up well, then store this in a brown 1000ml glass bottle. I use and re-use this to fix my 35mm and 120 films until it exhausts at about 20-30+ rolls later. 4-5 min for most films, 6-7 for Tmax/Delta films. Agitate for 30 seconds of each minute.

I'm on at least my 3rd or 4th gallon of the concentrate doing it this way, all for films.

 

[jmcd]

I use kodak rapid fix for my films as I have found TF5 and 4 do exhaust more rapidly.

I find TF-4 extremely long lasting with film, standing up like a brute and long lasting in the jug, with initial clearing even faster than Ilford at around 15 seconds (though you should still fix film for at least 3 minutes).TF5, as mentioned above, is compromised by films containing high amounts of iodide.

For paper and wash times, I find TF-5 and Ilford rapid fix just about the same (testing with HT-2). For efficient paper washing, I find hpyo clearing agent essential even with TF5.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Well, some interesting comments here.

TF-4 is alkaline and TF-5 is just about neutral. Both can be mixed with tap water! Both can be used with a stop bath. Both of these fixers and most other fixers are just about the same concentration based on the optimum chart shown by Mees. This is a law of chemistry that we just cannot ignore. Therefore most all major fixers have the same capacity. Wash and fix rates differ due to other addenda.

Actually, TF-4 and TF-5 both fix at about the same rate but for different reasons, and both wash at about the same rate. TF-5 is odorless and has no settled solids at the bottom of the container and so can be mixed in small quantities. Due to pH, TF-5 does leave some additional pink or blue stain in negatives unless you extend fix time in the fixer and the wash. Kodak recognizes this and has posted a comment to that effect in the data sheets for its film products.

Both TF-4 and TF-5 are extremely long lasting as concentrates, working solutions and partly used solutions.

I hope that this clarifies some things about fixers in general.

PE

 

[jmcd]

Photo Engineer: Both can be mixed with tap water!

That is good to know, seriously. The instructions for both TF-4 and TF-5 both recommend distilled water for best results, and the TF-5 repeatedly calls for distilled water specifically.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Both TF-4 and TF-5 instructions recommend DW, but this does not mean it is MANDATORY. TF-5 recommends it to minimize the ammonia odor with some alkaline tap water sources which can cause a mild odor.

PE

 

[Photo Engineer]

You get the same wash rate from TF-5 as you do from TF-4 due to the lower level of a particular salt. By having a near neutral fix with a lower level of salt, the wash rate can be the same in both instances. All wash rates depend on local water quality. No matter what fixer you use, I recommend the use of the dual test kit for retained silver and retained hypo.

PE

 

[marcmarc]

Did I under-fix my negs?

Just a quick question to P.E - I've used TF-4 for about four years but I never (until the past year) mixed the whole 1 liter bottle. I'd shake up the bottle to dissolve the sludge and make a working solution of 1+3 and use that amount to fix five rolls, then I'd make a new 1+3 solution and so on until the 1 liter stock was gone. Between this and the fact that I'd fill the tank to the brim makes me think my negs are going to have a very limited life span. So far the still look fine but that can change in the coming years.

 

[Photo Engineer]

TF-4 was designed to be mixed completely and stored as a working solution. It has a huge lifetime, more than any other fixer I have ever used. OTOH, I have no idea what may have happened regarding your negatives. Don't you test for retained Silver and retained Hypo? This is the only way to be sure. If they test OK, then there is no need to worry.

PE

 

[Sirius Glass]

Thanks PE, that answers many of the questions that I had. If he were here the two letter troll of whose name we do not speak would drag this on and on just so he could disagree with you and have the last word.

Steve

 

[marcmarc]

Thanks for the reply P.E. No I don't do the tests you mention. I'll have a look in the archives on see what is required.

 

[Skywalker]

Is there a commercial test for retained Silver and retained Hypo available in the market? I’m located in USA.

 

[relistan]

Is there a commercial test for retained Silver and retained Hypo available in the market? I’m located in USA.

Take a look here: https://stores.photoformulary.com/search.php?search_query=hypo+test&x=0&y=0 both are in the results

 

[Doremus Scudder]

The PF products linked to above, the residual hypo and residual silver tests, are the Kodak HT-2 and ST-1 formulas, respectively. Formulae are easily found online if you want to mix your own. Ed Buffaloe's unblinkingeye site has a page on archival processing with both formulae as well as a downloadable version of the "Hypo Estimator" color comparison chart. It's here: https://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Archival/archival.html

An alternative for the residual-silver test, recommended by Kodak, is to use Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner diluted 1+9 from the stock concentrate. Use this as you would ST-1: place a drop on a clear area of the film or the white border of a print, wait three minutes and then rinse. Any discoloration other than a very light cream color indicates underfixing.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

 

[Skywalker]

Take a look here: https://stores.photoformulary.com/search.php?search_query=hypo+test&x=0&y=0 both are in the results

Thank you for the information.

 

[Skywalker]

The PF products linked to above, the residual hypo and residual silver tests, are the Kodak HT-2 and ST-1 formulas, respectively. Formulae are easily found online if you want to mix your own. Ed Buffaloe's unblinkingeye site has a page on archival processing with both formulae as well as a downloadable version of the "Hypo Estimator" color comparison chart. It's here: https://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Archival/archival.html

An alternative for the residual-silver test, recommended by Kodak, is to use Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner diluted 1+9 from the stock concentrate. Use this as you would ST-1: place a drop on a clear area of the film or the white border of a print, wait three minutes and then rinse. Any discoloration other than a very light cream color indicates underfixing.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

Thank you for your information.