Ilford Purchased by Pemberstone Ventures Ltd

Ken Nadvornick · Sep 14, 2015

Richard S. (rich815) said:
I've the feeling we'll see a honing of the line of films and likely only see 3-4 emulsions, if I had to guess I'd say Delta 100/400 and HP5+, maybe XP2, or perhaps Delta 400 eliminated with people told to push Delta 100 if needed (like Fuji told us to do with Acros when they eliminated Neopan 400). As much as I love FP4+ if Plus-X had slow sales I'd guess FP4+ is likely fairly weak in sales vs the others I mention. And I doubt Pan F does much sales either compared to the Deltas and HP5+. I'd also guess the annual special run of unique sizes might have seen its last run this year. Probably see similar streamline of the developers too. Just guesses.

Barry S said:
The differences between Kodak and Harman are stark. The fact they both manufacture film may be the only similarity. Not sure why anyone would expect them to follow the same trajectory.

Not saying they would. Just saying that based on the past the perception might be that they would. Hence the unsubstantiated angst you see in this thread.

Whether or not they are similar or dissimilar is irrelevant. Perception is people's reality. And if people perceive here we go again... well then, here we go.

See the quoted post above yours. That's the perception of a direct repeat of the Kodak product line hack-and-chop to become more "efficient". To do more with less. So perception-wise here we go again...

Ken

xo-whiplock · Sep 14, 2015

Perception of a lunatic is their reality as well, but doesn't make it so for everyone else who is not one. The take away is, Harmon does well, attracts buyer, sells, new buyer states to grow the business and increase profits. It's a good bet based on this that we'll see more from Harmon in the future, not less.

Richard S. (rich815) · Sep 15, 2015

Ken Nadvornick said:
See the quoted post above yours. That's the perception of a direct repeat of the Kodak product line hack-and-chop to become more "efficient". To do more with less. So perception-wise here we go again...

Ken

Or Fuji. But it's not just film companies but many, many others that have followed this path in evolving and changing industries...

Richard S. (rich815) · Sep 15, 2015

xo-whiplock said:
Perception of a lunatic is their reality as well, but doesn't make it so for everyone else who is not one. The take away is, Harmon does well, attracts buyer, sells, new buyer states to grow the business and increase profits. It's a good bet based on this that we'll see more from Harmon in the future, not less.

I sincerely hope you're right. I love film and love Ilford products. But name a single company that was in a recently severely shrinking and evolving industry in which that has happened without radically changing their direction.

Richard S. (rich815) · Sep 15, 2015

Another article on the purchase: http://www.bjp-online.com/2015/09/harman-ilford-film-purchased-pemberstone/

And quite a relevant fairly long piece on film overall with some interesting speculation, including about Ilford and even Ferrania:

http://time.com/4011238/the-future-of-film-photography-instant-toy-cameras-and-small-scale-labs/

(Sorry if either were already posted)

RattyMouse · Sep 15, 2015

Every time I see the words Pemberstone Ventures, I read it (unconsciously) as Pemberstone Vultures.

Ken Nadvornick · Sep 15, 2015

Richard S. (rich815) said:
Or Fuji. But it's not just film companies but many, many others that have followed this path in evolving and changing industries...

True dat...

We live in an era where products change overnight. Often for no reason other than just because. It's not surprising, I think, that the companies producing those products have evolved similarly. Even the most successful companies now become irrelevant or just vanish after only a few years. I fear it's part of the larger collective loss of attention spans afflicting societies today. Make a buck, cash out, off to the Bahamas, then do it over again next month.

Remember the Blackberry? Like him or not, the Prez was famous for his when he was first elected. Well, he's still the Prez. But Blackberry's and the company that made them are now totally irrelevant and considered interesting only to paleontologists. Ask a kid today what a Blackberry is and he won't even know anything about the edible kind, let alone the mobile kind.

Ken

xo-whiplock · Sep 15, 2015

Richard S. (rich815) said:
I sincerely hope you're right. I love film and love Ilford products. But name a single company that was in a recently severely shrinking and evolving industry in which that has happened without radically changing their direction.

Well, from the linked article by BJP, we really can't say much until after 5 years have passed.

I wanted to add, that the future of film is not its past. There was a time when "shrinking" describe the film market. Today, the operative word is "growing."

Let me give an example... I cut back a tree in the yard not too long ago. Because the roots were good, the tree sprouted buds and then shoots, and now it's as big as it was when I cut it, but with new branches with more fruit.

Ken Nadvornick · Sep 15, 2015

When I was young I didn't know what wisdom was because I didn't have any. When I got old I new exactly what wisdom was but sometimes wished I had never acquired it.

Ken

Sirius Glass · Sep 15, 2015

HP5+ and the Multigrade FB papers

Xmas · Sep 15, 2015

Ken Nadvornick said:
When I was young I didn't know what wisdom was because I didn't have any. When I got old I new exactly what wisdom was but sometimes wished I had never acquired it.

Ken

You need to change your signature line...

Xmas · Sep 15, 2015

xo-whiplock said:
Well, from the linked article by BJP, we really can't say much until after 5 years have passed.

I wanted to add, that the future of film is not its past. There was a time when "shrinking" describe the film market. Today, the operative word is "growing."

Let me give an example... I cut back a tree in the yard not too long ago. Because the roots were good, the tree sprouted buds and then shoots, and now it's as big as it was when I cut it, but with new branches with more fruit.

Ten years ago the Agfa factory at Leverkusen changed hands it was bankrupt in five months...
There is still too much production capability in the film industry even without ilford.
Donno if the market is growing or not, Kodaks accounts say not.

RattyMouse · Sep 15, 2015

Xmas said:
Donno if the market is growing or not, Kodaks accounts say not.

Do you have a source for this claim? Please provide.

Ilford has stated clearly here at APUG that their company was growing.

Xmas · Sep 15, 2015

Yes Eastman Kodaks publish quarterly accounts that are independently audited before publication so that if you buy their shares on the stock market you won't be surprised.

The figures were so depressing I stopped looking about a year ago I don't want to look again Google will find.

Eastman Kodak incorporated accounts

They had lumped bubble jet and film together as 'legacy products'. Because they are cash cows that are funding their diversication into future revenue resources.

They publish two sets together last three and current three months.

Be nice if you told me they were better, quarter on quarter

Note

A) I do have other sources but if you 'burn' a source they stop being a source, egEddy Snowdon's memory stick is frozen from he flew to China.
B) the accounts don't split cine and stills and from memory the figure I recall from '92 was 96% cine 4% still but the coater dies on volume not on stills increasing cause you are paying staff wages.
C) it is normal to talk up a company when you are trying to sell it that is why the formal accounts are audited. I used to be in marketing and the first course I did was to learn how to get both ends of my tongue to go up and down together.

goros · Sep 15, 2015

http://www.adox.de/Photo/adox-acquires-ilfords-medium-scale-coating-line/

pdeeh · Sep 15, 2015

In the interest of adding to the general stock of febrile speculation, email "out of office" replies are not content-dependent - thus all and any emails addressed to Simon Galley get the response, not only those relating to the sale of Harman ... of course this could simply mean he's taken his share of the loot and is on his way to Acapulco on holiday ...

Or it could mean that he has had his brain sucked out with a straw by shape-shifting alien lizards (e.g. Pemberstone Ventures) and will shortly reappear apparently looking the same but actually being remotely animated by Tom Cruise ...

You decide ...

(but remember, trust no-one. The truth is out there.)

zanxion72 · Sep 15, 2015

That scares me! One buys that, other ilford's medium format line... It feels as if ilford becomes pieces here and there. I don't know, but I don't like this.

Roger Cole · Sep 15, 2015

pdeeh said:
In the interest of adding to the general stock of febrile speculation, email "out of office" replies are not content-dependent - thus all and any emails addressed to Simon Galley get the response, not only those relating to the sale of Harman ... of course this could simply mean he's taken his share of the loot and is on his way to Acapulco on holiday ...

Or it could mean that he has had his brain sucked out with a straw by shape-shifting alien lizards (e.g. Pemberstone Ventures) and will shortly reappear apparently looking the same but actually being remotely animated by Tom Cruise ...

You decide ...

(but remember, trust no-one. The truth is out there.)

Well of course they are not content specific. I use them myself every time I take a vacation - but also include my return date. That there was no return date I find suspicious, and troubling.

georg16nik · Sep 15, 2015

RattyMouse said:
Do you have a source for this claim? Please provide.

Ilford has stated clearly here at APUG that their company was growing.

The same APUG that was bypassed yesterday by Ilford's poorly scripted press release?
Looks like Twitter and Facebook are their currently preferred announcement tribune.

pdeeh · Sep 15, 2015

zanxion72 said:
That scares me! One buys that, other ilford's medium format line... It feels as if ilford becomes pieces here and there. I don't know, but I don't like this.

The connection between the "Swiss Ilford" and Harman/Ilford is really only of historical interest. they have long long been separate companies with no financial connection.

Adox' purchase of the coating line of a bankrupt company that only has the name Ilford in common with Harman is not an indicator that "Ilford" is being broken up.

That break-up occurred years ago.

If however Adox have any of their products coated and/or confectioned by Harman, (the emphasis is IF), then that might have an impact on Harman if production is withdrawn from them by Adox. But only Adox and Harman will know that for sure and they won't be telling. (Although I think Mirko has said most or all of Adox' product is coated at Inoviscoat?)

I'd be more worried about the shape-shifting alien lizard problem, myself.

RattyMouse · Sep 15, 2015

How much land does the Ilford facility sit upon and does anyone know how much it is worth? I know that this is lease by Ilford and now owned but it still may be the key why this transaction took place.

Xmas · Sep 15, 2015

pdeeh said:
In the interest of adding to the general stock of febrile speculation, email "out of office" replies are not content-dependent - thus all and any emails addressed to Simon Galley get the response, not only those relating to the sale of Harman ... of course this could simply mean he's taken his share of the loot and is on his way to Acapulco on holiday ...

Or it could mean that he has had his brain sucked out with a straw by shape-shifting alien lizards (e.g. Pemberstone Ventures) and will shortly reappear apparently looking the same but actually being remotely animated by Tom Cruise ...

You decide ...

(but remember, trust no-one. The truth is out there.)

No an out of office email 'see boss instead back whenever ...' was mandated even if I was at dentists for afternoon filling. The 'back whenever ' meant that the people with non urgent queries would not annoy boss for answers they knew he did not do...
Just as a courtesy.
Some support land lines had 24/7 coverage for emergency support, so you got a premium and had to avoid a new year drink, our system failed reliably on big bens 12th stroke.
Don't ask what we were doing.

Xmas · Sep 15, 2015

RattyMouse said:
How much land does the Ilford facility sit upon and does anyone know how much it is worth? I know that this is lease by Ilford and now owned but it still may be the key why this transaction took place.

It is prime housing development land... Only problem is close to active civil airport so local authority needs bigger bung to approve, don't ask what a bung is...

Curt · Sep 15, 2015

I'll survive, God willing and the freezer doesn't get unplugged!

Ian Grant · Sep 15, 2015

There's too much negative speculation here. The key phrase in the press release is "Our new owners will assist us to connect more effectively to this younger generation in the future, and we will prioritise this as our main goal over the next five years."

Companies have to change and move on, this is most probably a positive development for Harman, the five directors who bought and rescued Harman will eventually retire and that would raise ownership issues for the company. This way allows for a far better chance of continuity and a viable future for Harman.

Ian

Ilford Purchased by Pemberstone Ventures Ltd

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