Ilford Pan F+ and Rodinal combination

[thenikonknight]

I've shot some Ilford Pan F+ at ei 25. I have Rodinal developer. I shot the film outdoors on a partly cloudy day - some of the shots were under sunny conditions and some were cloudy. I am using a Nikon 35mm.

Does anyone have suggestions that have worked for them concerning developer ratio/development time/agitation times/fixing times?

I know this film+developer combo has been brought up before. I have done some searching around this forum and other forums online with limited success. However, I usually end up with results of Pan F+ developed in a different developer or a different film all together and wind up spending hours of time I don't have. That's why I am asking here for this specific combination rated at shot at ei 25.

Also, if any could point me to examples of Ilford Pan F+ shot at ei 25 developed in Rodinal (preferably with dev. times) - it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for all of your input and assistance.

 

[JCJackson]

When in doubt, I use the Massive DEvelopment Chart: http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php. It indicates a dilution of 1+100 and a time of 15 minutes, with standard agitation. This could be difficult if you have only a single roll in a small (250 ml) tank, since it is recommended that the tank contain a minimum of 5 ml of Rodinal per roll to assure complete development. The easy way around this would be to use 5 ml in a 500 ml tank, and add a second empty reel to keep things from sloshing around too much during agitation.

Hope this helps!

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Pan F+ is a rather problematic film in that it develops contrast very quickly. You are right in wanting to reduce the EI. Whenever I use this film I expose at EI of 32 and develop in D-23 1+1. You are using a low contrast developer with a high contrast film to tame it. This film/developer combo is excellant. D-23 is very easy to make and very economical since it contains only 2 ingredients. If you don't have a scale there are teaspoon versions on the web.

 

[ROL]

Start with digitaltruth as the rest of us do. 1+100 @ 15 minutes sounds about right for somewhat limited contrast.

I develop Rodinal normally with 1+50 @ 9 minutes with solid results, though my preference for Pan F+ is now PMK Pyro (1:2:100) or (1:1.5:100) @ 9 minutes (N).

 

[arealitystudios]

I shoot with 120 Pan F fairly often developed in Rodinal and I follow the times recommend on the Massive Development Chart.

I do however modify their recommendations a tad in that I develop slightly colder than 68 degrees (usually 66), increase my time a little bit, and I agitate very gently to tame the contract, particularly when I know my lighting was contrasty. When shooting on an overcast day I just develop as normal.

 

[thenikonknight]

Thanks for the input. I almost forgot about the massive dev chart.

A couple of other questions came to mind. Would fixing for 5mins be acceptable here? I had experienced problems in the past with not fixing long enough. Also, is a stop bath recommended?

I went to the Ilford site and saw for agitation they state, "invert the tank four times during the first 10 seconds, then invert the tank four
times again during the first 10 seconds for each further minute."

Does that agitation seem a bit much for this film?

Also, can anyone point me to some sample images of Pan F+ @ ei 25 using Rodinal? I'd like to have something to compare.
Thanks again!

 

[Colin Corneau]

I shoot Pan-F+ a lot, in Rodinal 1:50. Contrast was never a problem for me, but I like my images to have contrast.

An individual's particular development regiment changes a lot from person to person, but 14 minutes works well for me, at 20 degrees Celsius. I don't go crazy on agitation, just the standard recommended amount.

 

[vpwphoto]

I used a two bath developer that the Zone Vi studios used to sell. My stuff was wonderful...
Don't use Pan F too much as of late.

 

[baachitraka]

Rodinal 1+50 for 15 mins, agitation/inversion @ every 5th minute.

300ml water + 6ml Rodinal concentration.

Start = 3 inversion
5th Minute = 3 inversion
10th Minute = 3 inversion
15th Minute - pour out.

Stop + Fix + Wash.

 

[Lee L]

Alternately, you could use Agfa's starting recommendations, attached.

Lee

 

[polyglot]

I use Pan-F at EI25, Rodinal 1+50, develop for 9:00 at 20C. Note that's with agitation for first minute then 10s per minute, not the semi-stand (once per 3-5 minutes) approaches suggested above. I don't like the dull highlight look of semi-stand.

Some examples.

 

[Dave in Kansas]

I sometimes think that if I could only have one film and one developer it would be Pan F and Rodinal. It's beautiful, and I haven't found it hard to tame the contrast on most scenes.

I shoot it at EI 25, and develop in Rodinal 1:100 at 68F/20C for 15 minutes for normal contrast. I agitate constantly the first 30 seconds or so, then reduce it down to about once every 3 minutes if the scenes are normal.

Dave

 

[baachitraka]

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[john_s]

Agfa's recommendations are generally for contrast of 0.65 which is a bit high. The pdf uploaded by Lee is unusual in that for 1+100 it gives the resulting contrast at 15min and at 20min, and for PanF+ it's the same for 15min and 20min. Also it's interesting that it recommends 250mL of solution at 1+100 which is only 2.5mL of Rodinal. Agfa also stated elsewhere that 5mL was needed. I wonder if they did the 1+100 test with 250mL and that small quantity actually was exhausted at around 15min, which would mean perhaps that if you used 500mL then you'd end up with more contrast.

 

[Roger Cole]

I used a two bath developer that the Zone Vi studios used to sell. My stuff was wonderful...
Don't use Pan F too much as of late.

I have found Pan F in Diafine at EI 64 a wonderful combination.

 

[thenikonknight]

Here are the results from my 1st attempt using this combination.
I used a Patterson 2 reel tank (two rolls were processed together). I used the following ratio:

Rodinal 1+100 for 15 mins, agitation/inversion @ every 5th minute.

1000ml water + 10ml Rodinal concentration.

Start = 3 inversion
5th Minute = 3 inversion
10th Minute = 3 inversion
15th Minute - pour out.

Stop bath 20 seconds
One quick water wash
Fixer 5 mins
5 Minute Wash - agitation constant for 1 minute cycles renewing water after every minute (Photo Flo added to last minute wash cycle).

A couple of things to note here. I don't have much experience processing B&W (as you could probably guess from the included image). I mixed up 1000mL water and 10mL Rodinal. Of course I only poured approx 550mL into the tank - I am not sure how much developer solution I should be pouring in the tank (should I change my ratio?). Also, do you start the timer while pouring the developer solution into the tank or not? I am not sure if this will make a difference.

The image is salvageable with some image editing. However, it would be better to work with a cleaner negative.

Any pointers/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[thenikonknight]

I don't know where you came up with this agitation scheme but it is no good, especially with a scene of normal or low contrast. The result is a muddy, uneven, flat negative with poor shadow contrast. Go back to what I posted and refer to Ilford's instructions. Particularly if you're not experienced, start with a standard procedure.

I used the agitation advice from an earlier post in this thread.
Next time I'll just use the Massive Dev chart since Ilford doesn't have instructions for ei25.

 

[baachitraka]

Here are the results from my 1st attempt using this combination.
I used a Patterson 2 reel tank (two rolls were processed together). I used the following ratio:

Rodinal 1+100 for 15 mins, agitation/inversion @ every 5th minute.

1000ml water + 10ml Rodinal concentration.

Start = 3 inversion
5th Minute = 3 inversion
10th Minute = 3 inversion
15th Minute - pour out.

Stop bath 20 seconds
One quick water wash
Fixer 5 mins
5 Minute Wash - agitation constant for 1 minute cycles renewing water after every minute (Photo Flo added to last minute wash cycle).

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Above agitation scheme is indeed very good to get the shadow detail.

Please note: The development time and agitation was given only for the dilution 1+50(my personal case, 300ml + 6ml) only.

 

[thefizz]

EI40, Rodinal 1:50, 15 minutes, lovely

 

[thenikonknight]

Some other questions I had:

- Should I start the timer while I am pouring in the developer solution - or wait until I have all of the solution in the tank?
- I am using Clayton oderless fixer - does that make a difference?
- How much total developer solution should I be pouring into the Patterson (2 reel) tank for processing - 600mL?

~ Thank you

 

[Zvonimir Ervacic]

Digital Truth site is a good starting point but I prefer to use Ed Buffaloe recommended developing times and developing procedure (explained on pages) for PMK and Rodinal developers. He use diffuse head enlarger, I use condenser head enlarger so I reduce developing time by 10%. If the shooting situation were not difficult regarding contrast I usually get negatives that are printable on Fotokemika Emaks paper, Normal gradation. If not Soft or Hard graded paper help. At least excellent starting point that in my experience rarely need small tuning for printing on Normal graded paper.
Here is recommended time for Rodinal:
http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Developers/Times_Rodinal/times_rodinal.html

 

[baachitraka]

Some other questions I had:

- Should I start the timer while I am pouring in the developer solution - or wait until I have all of the solution in the tank?
- I am using Clayton oderless fixer - does that make a difference?
- How much total developer solution should I be pouring into the Patterson (2 reel) tank for processing - 600mL?

~ Thank you

Start the timer and pour the developer.

For fixer, follow the recommendation from the the manufacturer.

If you are developing two rolls then 600ml of water + 12ml of developer, otherwise 300ml + 6ml for a roll. Before that make sure that your 'reels' are submerged completely with given amount of water.

 

[thenikonknight]

Here's the results of developing Pan F+ using the Massive Development chart. Although the negatives are somewhat improved, it seems there is a cast on the negative.

 

[Brian Legge]

Are these scans of the negative or of a print? Either way, these scans seem off (or the print if the print looks the same way). It looks like you have a fair amount of detail here but the contrast is way off.

 

[Mark Fisher]

Here's the results of developing Pan F+ using the Massive Development chart. Although the negatives are somewhat improved, it seems there is a cast on the negative. View attachment 48817

I agree with Brian. There is detail everywhere so the film exposure is adequate, but the contrast is pretty low. What grade paper did you end up printing on? If it is higher than grade 3, then try developing about 10-20% more and that will increase the contrast. If it is a neg sacn, you have all the information there so you should be able to make the proper adjustments in Photoshop. Back when I used to scan negs, I found that the images out of the scanner were pretty much always flat, the they printed nicely.

I use Rodinal for everything I do now. I find that Digital Truth numbers for 1:50 are pretty much spot on to get grade 2 (condenser) or 3 (diffusion) for the way I print.