Ilford Pan F+ and Rodinal 1+100

david b · Apr 27, 2005

Does anyone use 1+100 regularly? If so, what is the dev time and ISO/ASA ?

I currently use ISO 50 and 11@68 but will need to conserve my Rodinal while on a trip so I would like to use 1+100.

VoidoidRamone · Apr 27, 2005

I've been shooting PanF+ at EI50 in rodinal 1:100 for 15min 68F. Although I haven't been shooting a lot of PanF+ lately, the last roll I shot came out nicely- not too contrasty.
-Grant

modafoto · Apr 27, 2005

This I will try!

But first I have to get out shooting some IR...

erikg · Apr 27, 2005

david b said:
Does anyone use 1+100 regularly? If so, what is the dev time and ISO/ASA ?

I currently use ISO 50 and 11@68 but will need to conserve my Rodinal while on a trip so I would like to use 1+100.

I responded to this in the other thread, but rodinal is worth the duplication so:

Oh yes. My long time standard for Pan-F+ is 1:100 for 8 min. @ 70F. I rate the film at 32. Very nice. I've done this since before the "+" was added to the name. This gives me a zone VIII highlight value of 1.20.

david b · Apr 28, 2005

Okay...so I shot some Pan F+ today at ISO 50 and then developed 1+100 for 20 minutes at 68 degrees and the negs look rather good but maybe a bit dense.

So I am thinking the time is probably around 17-18 minutes.

(I developed two 120 rolls in a 1000ml jobo tank. 10ml rodinal plus 990ml water)

Andy K · Apr 28, 2005

David, wouldn't that make it a dilution of 1+99?
Sorry to sound pedantic but I've only been developing my own film for about 5 months or so, and have always assumed 1+## meant exactly that, one plus? eg 1+50 in a litre tank would be 20ml rodinal + 1000ml water.
Have I been over-diluting slightly?

Soeren · Apr 28, 2005

Andy K said:
David, wouldn't that make it a dilution of 1+99?
Sorry to sound pedantic but I've only been developing my own film for about 5 months or so, and have always assumed 1+## meant exactly that, one plus? eg 1+50 in a litre tank would be 20ml rodinal + 1000ml water.
Have I been over-diluting slightly?

Hmm slightly Well it dosn't really matter much when we are talking 1:50, 1+50, 1:100 and 1+100 but you are right
1:50 = 1+49
1+100 = 1:101
thats a difference of 1-2%. I suspect agitation and the "40cm issue" matter more
It's more of a problem if you are talking 1+3 or 1:3
of cource we have to be accurate on these things
Cheers Søren

Andy K · Apr 28, 2005

The confusion arises because I read 1+50 or even 1+4 as one part developer plus fifty parts water or one part developer plus four parts water.

Surely if it was supposed to be one part developer to fortynine parts water it would say so?

Fotohuis · Apr 28, 2005

The first difference between 1:100 (1+99) and 1+100 for Rodinal I have to see in 35 years darkroom experience, but indeed in theorie you 're right.

I have just tested a serie of R3 in CG512 (23:00 Min., 24 degrees C.) and Pan F (as reference film) in CG512 (12:00 Min. , 24 degrees C.) The grain and sharpness of the R3 was slightly better. (both on iso 50).
Maybe a good idea to do a last test with the suggested Pan F and Rodinal combination.
Only one problem: Hard to get some (new) rolls of Pan F at the moment.

Detailed information about this CG512 is on our NL website. This soup is compatible with the Rollei low speed developer.

Best regards,

Robert

Andy K · Apr 28, 2005

Fotohuis said:
Only one problem: Hard to get some (new) rolls of Pan F at the moment.

I just bought a ten roll pack of PAN F (35mm) from Jessops ( Dead Link Removed&). Not the cheapest I've ever bought it but it did arrive next day no problem (without me having to specify next day delivery and therefore I avoided the exorbitant next day fee!). Maybe there's a shortage in the Netherlands?

Dean Williams · Apr 28, 2005

Andy K said:
The confusion arises because I read 1+50 or even 1+4 as one part developer plus fifty parts water or one part developer plus four parts water.

Surely if it was supposed to be one part developer to fortynine parts water it would say so?

You're exactly right, Andy. There should be no confusion about this. 1+50 is 1 plus 50, simple addition, just like we all learned in grammer shcool.

Quote Fotohuis:
"The first difference between 1:100 (1+99) and 1+100 for Rodinal I have to see in 35 years darkroom experience, but indeed in theorie you 're right."

It may not make any difference at 1+100 if you were to mix 1+99 (or 10+990), but what if it said to mix 1+3? Using the same reasoning as the 1+99 (or 10+990) mixture, you would actually mix your 1+3 mixture at 1+2. That would make quite a difference with most developers.

thefizz · Apr 28, 2005

I am with Andy & Dean on this one but I would have thought that 1:100 is the same as 1+100.

I use Tmax developer with Kodak's times for a ratio mix of 1:4, which to me is 1 part developer to 4 parts water, i.e. 1+4.

Am I missing something here?

Peter

titrisol · Apr 28, 2005

IMHO Rodinal 1+100 works best with decreased agitation. Generally in 20 minutes I agitate once every 2 minutes at most.

If you are using a JOBO, it'll agitate too much and negs will look too contrasty. I'd cut the time in 20%.

david b said:
Okay...so I shot some Pan F+ today at ISO 50 and then developed 1+100 for 20 minutes at 68 degrees and the negs look rather good but maybe a bit dense.

So I am thinking the time is probably around 17-18 minutes.

(I developed two 120 rolls in a 1000ml jobo tank. 10ml rodinal plus 990ml water)

david b · Apr 28, 2005

well...i agitated for the first minute and then once every 5 minutes.

and as I previously said, I think I have to come down to 17-18 minutes which would be a reduction of 10-15 percent. that should be alright.

more testing later today.

titrisol · Apr 28, 2005

OK, that should do fine... I thought you were using a motorized JOBO [duh!]

david b said:
well...i agitated for the first minute and then once every 5 minutes.

and as I previously said, I think I have to come down to 17-18 minutes which would be a reduction of 20-30 percent.

Fotohuis · Apr 28, 2005

About dillutions: yes 1+4 100ml+400 ml = 500 ml total volume, even in Holland we can calculate :confused:

In case of the example Rodinal 1+100 or 1+99 the failure is within the measuring tolerance so in practice of no importance any more.

@ Andy K.: Ilford has been hopeless in the Netherlands, we dropped them, even we know their products are of high quality but the delivery time and delivery conditions are hopeless.

Robert

thefizz · Apr 28, 2005

Fotohuis said:
The first difference between 1:100 (1+99) and 1+100 for Rodinal I have to see in 35 years darkroom experience, but indeed in theorie you 're right.

But there is no difference, 1:100 is 1+100 and not 1+99.

Fotohuis · Apr 28, 2005

1:100 means 100 times dilluted.
So 1000 ml/100=10ml concentrate in a total volume of 1000 ml

That means: 10 ml concentrate + 990 ml water = 1000 ml total volume =>
1+99 BINGO

I will get a drink from you when i ever come to Ireland.

best regards,

Robert

Fotohuis · Apr 28, 2005

Sorry no drink: Send me a Pan F+ from your nice country, I will return you Foma or R3 Rollei. :rolleyes:

thefizz · Apr 28, 2005

So then that means 1:4 is actually 1+3 which means I have been mixing my Tmax developer too weak.

Yes if you come to Ireland Robert, the drinks are on me.

Slán
Peter

Andy K · Apr 28, 2005

1:4 is a ratio. A ratio of one measure of developer to four measures of water. Resulting in a final volume the equivalent of five measures.

titrisol · Apr 28, 2005

I think you are mistaken.
1:100 is a ratio of developer to water -> 1 part developer and 100 parts water or 1+100
1:1 = 1+1 = 1 part developer and 1 part water.
and so forth

IMHO 1+1 is easier to understand for everyone than 1:1

Fotohuis said:
1:100 means 100 times dilluted.
So 1000 ml/100=10ml concentrate in a total volume of 1000 ml

That means: 10 ml concentrate + 990 ml water = 1000 ml total volume =>
1+99 BINGO

I will get a drink from you when i ever come to Ireland.

best regards,

Robert

thefizz · Apr 28, 2005

Andy K said:
1:4 is a ratio. A ratio of one measure of developer to four measures of water. Resulting in a final volume the equivalent of five measures.

Thats what I would have thought but going by Roberts example of 1:100, it would not be so.

Are the drinks on Robert then ?

Peter

zenrhino · Apr 28, 2005

david b said:
well...i agitated for the first minute and then once every 5 minutes.

and as I previously said, I think I have to come down to 17-18 minutes which would be a reduction of 10-15 percent. that should be alright.

more testing later today.

Ok, now you've officially made it so simple that I have no excuse not to try Rodinal. =)

Fotohuis · Apr 28, 2005

It sounds to me like liter and gallon :confused:

To end this discussion about Rodinal: In the German and Dutch instruction of the latest Rodinal bottles it is indicated as follows: 1+25 and 1+50.

So to our dillution "problem" => 1+100 10 ml + 1000 ml = 1010 ml end volume (fortunately this will also fit in the tank )

Sometimes life is hard to understand.

.... and this year we have holiday in Ireland of course, which such nice offer.... thanks.

Ilford Pan F+ and Rodinal 1+100

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