Ilford Multigrade Filters

timsto · Jan 3, 2018

After decades, I am getting back into black and white developing and am trying to determine how much of my old equipment is still working/useful. I have the old 1982 Ilford Ilfospeed Mulyigrade II filters which suited the paper available at the time.

My question is: Will these filters work with the newest Ilford MG IV paper? or do I need to invest in newer filters?

Thanks

Kevin Caulfield · Jan 3, 2018

Yes, they will be fine.

Huub · Jan 3, 2018

The main advantage of the newer filters is that grades 00 - 3.5 will need the same exposure time and grades 4 - 5 will need double exposure time to maintain the same average grey rendition in a print. The older Multigrade II filters came with a calculation disk, needed to recalculate the exposure time to achieve the same effect.

jlbruyelle · Jan 3, 2018

Kevin Caulfield said:
Yes, they will be fine.

A note of caution is in order: although MG II filters are compatible with MG IV papers, gelatin filters change with time, even if they have been kept in good storage conditions. All the Multigrade II filters are very old now, so they should at least be tested to determine whether or not they can still be trusted (they very probably can't). This is a big advantage of colour enlarger heads over Multigrade filter kits: their dichroic filters don't change with time.

tedr1 · Jan 3, 2018

There are plenty of variables in darkroom work, sometimes too many, treat yourself to an up to date filter set, and eliminate an unknown variable

faberryman · Jan 3, 2018

Huub said:
The main advantage of the newer filters is that grades 00 - 3.5 will need the same exposure time and grades 4 - 5 will need double exposure time to maintain the same average grey rendition in a print. The older Multigrade II filters came with a calculation disk, needed to recalculate the exposure time to achieve the same effect.

I have tested with Ilford MGFB Classic and Warmtone, and found moving to the 4 and 5 filters requires less than 2x exposure, closer to 1.4x-1.6x. I don't use those filters very often and just rely on new test strips. YMMV.

trendland · Jan 3, 2018

Or use ILFORD RC DELUXE (graded paper).

with regards

PS : But pls. don't buy grade 0 because you will not need it.
Grade 5 is not often in use - some need it
also - never !
PPS : I never recognize the big advantage of Multigrade?
Perhaps it shouldn't be (to see the big advantage)

Bob Carnie · Jan 3, 2018

trendland said:
Or use ILFORD RC DELUXE (graded paper).

with regards

PS : But pls. don't buy grade 0 because you will not need it.
Grade 5 is not often in use - some need it
also - never !
PPS : I never recognize the big advantage of Multigrade?
Perhaps it shouldn't be (to see the big advantage)

If the OP ever plans to Split Contrast Print , the 5 is always used in my darkroom and the 0 is used for burning in detail in highlight regions.

timsto · Jan 3, 2018

Bob Carnie said:
If the OP ever plans to Split Contrast Print , the 5 is always used in my darkroom and the 0 is used for burning in detail in highlight regions.

trendland · Jan 3, 2018

Bob Carnie said:
If the OP ever plans to Split Contrast Print , the 5 is always used in my darkroom and the 0 is used for burning in detail in highlight regions.

Ok........I bought grade 0 only one time. After grade 3 and 4 were exausted I had still enough of grade 2 but I don't need grade 2 so much.
At last I perhaps noticed the remaing 93
sheeds (out of a 100xbox) from grade 0.
Are your negatives soo contrasty?
Ahh - OK you mentioned it : Highlights ....hmm ?
I had sometimes a try with grade 0 but it was not the best.

with regards

trendland · Jan 3, 2018

timsto go ahad pls.
....what is your point ?
Just dare you calmly. .....

with regards

trendland · Jan 3, 2018

What is your point ?
with regards

Frank53 · Jan 3, 2018

trendland said:
Ok........I bought grade 0 only one time. After grade 3 and 4 were exausted I had still enough of grade 2 but I don't need grade 2 so much.
At last I perhaps noticed the remaing 93
sheeds (out of a 100xbox) from grade 0.
Are your negatives soo contrasty?
Ahh - OK you mentioned it : Highlights ....hmm ?
I had sometimes a try with grade 0 but it was not the best.

with regards

You obviously don’t know anything about split grade printing.
Regards,
Frank

trendland · Jan 3, 2018

May be missunderstanding mixing from translation ? - hope not that I am obviously nothing know about split grade
printing.
Unless it is just with multigrade paper - then you may be right Frank....

!
Let me short google (just to translate)
because I have a good idea from what you are talking.Perhaps I know this with other name.

with regards

trendland · Jan 3, 2018

Frank53 said:
You obviously don’t know anything about split grade printing.
Regards,
Frank

Wow Frank whats that ?
Splitgrade! (have had an idea of an complete other method from "spliting")
Yes and that should be nice ?

I can't follow .......... !

Up to now my obviously strange antipathy against Multigrade was very abstract.
Now it is becomming more concrete.

(I never interisted in techniques from it but from my imagination multigrade must be more simple and more fast and more uncomplicate than to use graded paper) ....and of cause I realized Ilford had a great need to bring out this inovation (from less market situation).
If I remember correct it was 1979 - 80.
After this many people have the need for it.
And today it would not work without
Multigrade in any case - or what else?

unbelivable Frank - sorry
but if I have know that a little earlyer I would have been more prepared.
U N B E L I V A B L E.

such Multigrade workflow.......!

with regards

trendland · Jan 3, 2018

timsto said:
After decades, I am getting back into black and white developing and am trying to determine how much of my old equipment is still working/useful. I have the old 1982 Ilford Ilfospeed Mulyigrade II filters which suited the paper available at the time.

My question is: Will these filters work with the newest Ilford MG IV paper? or do I need to invest in newer filters?

Thanks

timsto - go ahad with multigrade and don't care about last post (this post wich I answered to frank53)
Because this has nothing to say for you!

with regards

faberryman · Jan 3, 2018

trendland,

Is English your first language? Most of the time I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Frank53 · Jan 3, 2018

trendland said:
Wow Frank whats that ?
Splitgrade! (have had an idea of an complete other method from "spliting")
Yes and that should be nice ?

I can't follow .......... !

Up to now my obviously strange antipathy against Multigrade was very abstract.
Now it is becomming more concrete.

(I never interisted in techniques from it but from my imagination multigrade must be more simple and more fast and more uncomplicate than to use graded paper) ....and of cause I realized Ilford had a great need to bring out this inovation (from less market situation).
If I remember correct it was 1979 - 80.
After this many people have the need for it.
And today it would not work without
Multigrade in any case - or what else?
unbelivable Frank - sorry
but if I have know that a little earlyer I would have been more prepared.
U N B E L I V A B L E.
such Multigrade workflow.......!

with regards

Sorry, I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say.
Regards,
Frank

trendland · Jan 3, 2018

faberryman said:
trendland,

Is English your first language? Most of the time I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Me too faberry - me too !
With one exeption, it should be quite simple to understand what is mentioned.

The exeption is : If someone is using
Ilford Multigrade ......

.

Sorry friends - I can't hold my cellphone
(from laughing) and some people here noticed it (I am sitting in a restaurant)
Please forgive me - but I need a break.

with regards. ..

Frank53 · Jan 3, 2018

trendland said:
(I am sitting in a restaurant)
Please forgive me - but I need a break.

with regards. ..

Been drinking again?
That explains it.
Regards,
Frank

timsto · Jan 4, 2018

Thanks for everyone's advice and suggestions.
I have opted to buy new MG filters.

Appreciated

bernard_L · Jan 4, 2018

jlbruyelle said:
All the Multigrade II filters are very old now, so they should at least be tested to determine whether or not they can still be trusted (they very probably can't).

I faced the same situation ~3years ago. Received similar advice. Of course, giving the advice to buy new (versus keeping old) one can't go wrong...

timsto said:
I have opted to buy new MG filters.

I bought a new set. Then printed Stouffer step wedge with old/new at grade 2 and grade 4. Side by side, can't see any difference. Probably my eyes+brain are not subtle enough.

BMbikerider · Jan 4, 2018

I have strong reservations about using 1982 filters on 2018 paper - filters 26 years old are almost certainly not fully compatible with modern paper! Yes they will work - in a fashion but the grade you may require may not be there in the pack. New MG filters are not an inexpensive item now but if you can find a good secondhand set then go for them. Before I started using my colour enlarger to print B&W I found the 'below the lens type' to be easier to use especially if you are using split grade printing because the filter can be changed between grades without disturbing the enlarger head.

Pat Erson · Jan 4, 2018

tedr1 said:
treat yourself to an up to date filter set, and eliminate an unknown variable

I'd do that too. I was getting slightly disappointing results with Ilford RC papers (a bit grey dull prints). I bought a new set of MG filters and shazam! I can clearly see the difference now. From "dull" my prints have turned to "vibrant"/"sparkling".

trendland · Jan 4, 2018

Frank53 said:
Sorry, I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say.
Regards,
Frank

Further explanation :
"If I have known that (the details of multigrade workflow) a little earlier I would have been more prepared ( make me familiar with such kind of stuff )

Because I would have need to be more prepared to avoid to laugh in that way about "Multigrade"....!!!!

with regards

PS : Mission acomplished - fine I never try Multigrade - what a nonsence !

PPS : Is that more clear now to you?

Ilford Multigrade Filters

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