Ilford Multigrade Filters - ???

skljocnulbumte · Mar 8, 2017

Hello!

I bought second hend Ilford filter set and on instructions which was inside of box write: "MULTIGRADE filters are very easy to use: no complicated calculations are needed when changing from one filter to another. The exposure time for filters 00–31/2 is the same; that for filters 4–5 is double."
I don't know how and why, but I don't have a good results with this instructions. I made a several tests, allways used only Ilford products (Multigrade developer, stop bath, fixier - all at 20C degree, RC paper).

I have the same exposure time for all filters (6sec at f11) and the contrast increased for 0-3 1/2 and than fall. Blacks and shadows are good but highlighs totally go to grey. I supose that I need to have a brighter highlights with filter 4-5 than 3 1/2. The highes contrast I recived with filter 3 1/2. For me, photos with 4-5 filters are like combination of split printing with filters 0 and 3 1/2 but with more 0.

Examples: 1. raw - Gr: 0, 1, 2, 2 1/2
2. raw - Gr: 3, 3 1/2, 4, 4 1/2
3. raw - Gr: 5

Does anybody have expirance with results like me? Maybe I have a problem with filters or maybe I made some mistake which I don't recognized yet.

Please help me with sugestions.

Thanks

photog_ed · Mar 8, 2017

More info needed:

What light source is in your enlarger head?
What paper are you using and how old is it?
How old are the filters? Do they look like this? http://www.ilfordphoto.com/aboutus/page.asp?n=117

bvy · Mar 8, 2017

I'd be careful with second-hand filters. These filters fade with time and use. Get one wet and it's toast.

Patrick Robert James · Mar 8, 2017

I suspect exactly what bvy wrote. The older filters I have seen (I have a few sets...) fade, especially the magenta, high contrast, ones.

GregW · Mar 8, 2017

Ha! I had this same problem last night. Couldn't figure out why my prints were coming out flat and gray. tried new developer etc. Figured it must be my 2nd hand filters.

RalphLambrecht · Mar 8, 2017

skljocnulbumte said:
Hello!

I bought second hend Ilford filter set and on instructions which was inside of box write: "MULTIGRADE filters are very easy to use: no complicated calculations are needed when changing from one filter to another. The exposure time for filters 00–31/2 is the same; that for filters 4–5 is double."
I don't know how and why, but I don't have a good results with this instructions. I made a several tests, allways used only Ilford products (Multigrade developer, stop bath, fixier - all at 20C degree, RC paper).

I have the same exposure time for all filters (6sec at f11) and the contrast increased for 0-3 1/2 and than fall. Blacks and shadows are good but highlighs totally go to grey. I supose that I need to have a brighter highlights with filter 4-5 than 3 1/2. The highes contrast I recived with filter 3 1/2. For me, photos with 4-5 filters are like combination of split printing with filters 0 and 3 1/2 but with more 0.

Examples: 1. raw - Gr: 0, 1, 2, 2 1/2
2. raw - Gr: 3, 3 1/2, 4, 4 1/2
3. raw - Gr: 5

View attachment 174668

Does anybody have expirance with results like me? Maybe I have a problem with filters or maybe I made some mistake which I don't recognized yet.

Please help me with sugestions.

Thanks

The idea of keeping exposure times constant while changing contrast is a myth;it doesn't work; it can't work;exposure time controls highlight density;filtration controls shadow density;there is no way to change filtration and keep exposure constant;whenever the filtration is changed,exposure has to be changed to keep highlights constant;Ilford's instructions are misleading about that.the workflow is:
1.find exp time to get desired highlight density.
2.find filtration to get desired shadow density.
3.adjust exposure to maintain highlight density from 1(tooted but necessary)
Nevertheless,a test sequence can help to determine how to adjust highlight exposure for any contrast change,which will help to maintain constant print densities but it is not as easy as Alford wants us to believe.

Rick A · Mar 8, 2017

You beat me to it Ralph, I concur. The examples do show changing shadow density, but without adjusting time also, it's pointless. I've even found that lowering contrast sometimes requires extra time, not less time to obtain the proper exposure.

ic-racer · Mar 8, 2017

You can choose a gray density on the printing paper and adjust filtration color to change all the other values in the print without affecting the chosen gray value. This is the basis of the multigrade filter set and the "two color" filtration printing tables.

tedr1 · Mar 8, 2017

possible causes: exhausted developer; expired paper; defective filters

Harry Stevens · Mar 20, 2017

I assume you are using multigrade paper and no other filters are in the light path.

I own a box of old Ilford multigrade filters and they work a treat....

darkroommike · Mar 23, 2017

The filters work as described but only for what I'll call, for lack of a better term, a specific "speed point" which is a specific shade of medium gray. In the real world you'll just end up testing.

pentaxuser · Mar 23, 2017

As others have said, if your paper and chemicals are fresh then it is some or all of your filters that have faded. Are these filters for a filter drawer or under the lens filters? The filters for both are exactly the same except that under-the-lens filters are in plastic holders. If you have a filter drawer then get a new set from Ilford. If you have under-the-lens filters then get the same "open" filters from Ilford that fit into a filter drawer and split the plastic holder carefully with a sharp, narrow-bladed knife, remove the old filter, hold the old filter on top of the new filter and cut round it accurately with an ordinary scissors, place the new filter in the holder and press it shut with your fingers.

If I can do it then anyone can do it. Just take your time and wear gloves so you do not mark the new filters with your fingerprints. Much cheaper than buying a new set of under-the-lens filters.

pentaxuser

silveror0 · Mar 23, 2017

It's time to put in a suggestion to get a copy of the best reference available for VC printing:
Way Beyond Monochrome, Ed.2, by Ralph Lambrecht and Chris Woodhouse.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/024081625...targid=kwd-19438715086&ref=pd_sl_6g6kcwwvnj_b

klownshed · Mar 23, 2017

pentaxuser said:
If you have under-the-lens filters then get the same "open" filters from Ilford that fit into a filter drawer and split the plastic holder carefully with a sharp, narrow-bladed knife, remove the old filter, hold the old filter on top of the new filter and cut round it accurately with an ordinary scissors, place the new filter in the holder and press it shut with your fingers.

Much cheaper than buying a new set of under-the-lens filt

Now that you say it it seems obvious, the clear sign of a good idea

I am about to start printing again after a bit of a break. I think I'll compare my grade 5 filter with the equivalent settings on a colour head which should be slightly less than a grade 5. I prefer a black and white head with under the lens filters to a diffuser colour head but have both so can do an A/B comparison...

Edit. Thinking about it, that will only tell me which of the filters has faded more, the Ilford filters or filters inside the colour head. :-/

I think I will get a set to replace the under the lens filters after all. No point in spending a fortune in paper and chemicals if the filters are too old...

MattKing · Mar 23, 2017

klownshed said:
Edit. Thinking about it, that will only tell me which of the filters has faded more, the Ilford filters or filters inside the colour head. :-/

With very few exceptions, the colour heads use dichroic filters. Dichroic filters don't really fade, although they can get dirty.

pentaxuser · Mar 28, 2017

klownshed, I'd certainly endorse your idea to get a replacement set. I too had an old set of MG under-the-lens filters which had been kindly donated to me and while most of them looked OK, I knew this wasn't the case based on trying to achieve certain grades. It was clear when the new Ilford ones arrived that nearly all of the old filters had deteriorated. The bin was the only place for them.

Don't forget the cotton gloves when doing the cutting. If I recall the drawer filters have the grade numbers in one corner so you can marry-up the correct filter with the appropriate number on the filter holder. It may be possible to cut the filters in such a way that you can keep the filter number so that it does not intrude into the light path but this be too close to the round hole in the holder for comfort. No matter, just do each filter one at a time so there is no chance of placing the wrong filter in the wrong holder number. Do not rush the job. I spent a leisurely Sunday morning at it with a break for a cup of tea. Work your way around each holder's edges with a thin bladed knife to lift each edge a little then apply a bit more pressure and the two parts will separate. There are four small raised dowels in one half(male) and four holes( female) in the other half into which they fit

There is a slight ridge in the bottom holder into which the new filter will fit. The top half can be closed by finger pressure.

Best of luck

pentaxuser

skljocnulbumte · Apr 4, 2017

Thank you very much for your posts about my problem.
Before a few days I recived new filters. I didn't have a good filters. My old filters are faded and they are totally different colors than are new.
Now I'm in new world of printing .

Ilford Multigrade Filters - ???

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