Ilford Multigrade Filter Help

Joshua02230 · Oct 31, 2024

Hi, Newbie here, I'm trying to print some pictures with the ilford MG filters (with my omega c700 which has a filter draw below the lightbulb and above the lens). However, when I do my test strips with the mg filters, they turned out to be junk. I've attached a picture, can someone please point me out as to what the problem might be? Thanks!

Explanation of prints

Top right: Exposure 9 seconds, filter hand held below the lens and above the paper
Bottom right: Test strip done without filters of 3, 6, 9 seconds
Top left (long strip): Test strip with filters of 3, 6, 9 seconds
Middle left (long strip): Second test strip with filters of 3, 6, 9 seconds
Bottom left: Exposure of 8 seconds with filter, cleaned the filter by wiping it off and blowing the dust away, and placed in filter draw. Safelight off when exposure

All exposures done on a number 3 multigrade filter, MG paper out of the same box, and same chemicals (fresh, only gone through 3 or 4 test strips)

koraks · Oct 31, 2024

Hi, welcome to Photrio @Joshua02230 !

Can you tell a bit more about what the problem is, exactly? I see some test strips and overall they look like an OK starting point.

One thing:

Joshua02230 said:
Top right: Exposure 9 seconds, filter hand held below the lens and above the paper

Here, it looks like you held the filter halfway between the lens and the paper. That's not right. The filter needs to go directly below the lens (at a very short distance to it), if you want to use it in that position. You can also use it above the lens if your enlarger does indeed have a filter drawer and your filters are of the right size.

Can you describe in detail how you have made the test strips you show in your photo? How did you mask the paper for the consecutive 3, 6, 9 second exposures? Where was the contrast filter at that point?

Joshua02230 said:
my omega c700 which has a filter draw below the lightbulb and above the lens

I assume you have one with the condenser lamphouse?

Joshua02230 · Oct 31, 2024

koraks said:
Hi, welcome to Photrio @Joshua02230 !

Can you tell a bit more about what the problem is, exactly? I see some test strips and overall they look like an OK starting point.

One thing:

Here, it looks like you held the filter halfway between the lens and the paper. That's not right. The filter needs to go directly below the lens (at a very short distance to it), if you want to use it in that position. You can also use it above the lens if your enlarger does indeed have a filter drawer and your filters are of the right size.

View attachment 382319

I assume you have one with the condenser lamphouse?
View attachment 382320

Hi, thanks for the reply. The enlarger model is correct, and I used the filter draw expect for the ones which I specified I handheld. My main problem is what caused the formation of un-uniform black blocks on the left side long strips. I used a black card to block out sections of the test strip, so it should be all uniform, however the two strips on the left showed a weird exposure pattern, and only happened when I used the filter draw.

The handheld part seems to be what happened, thanks for pointing that out.

koraks · Oct 31, 2024

OK, thanks, so to narrow down the problem: it's specifically about this:

It looks like the paper got fogged to light while it was still light sensitive. This could happen:
* When cutting a sheet into strips
* When strips are temporarily stored before they're being used
* As the strips are handled before, during and after exposure in the darkroom environment
* As the strips are being developed and before they go into the stop bath

Potential problems to look out for:
1 Smart watches, phones or other personal apparel that emits light
2 Smoke detectors, network switches, computers or other 'standby' devices in the darkroom that have a status LED that may blink from time to time
3 Stray light from the enlarger itself due to improper masking of the negative
4 Stray light from the enlarger emanating from the lamphouse due to damage, incorrect assembly or missing parts on the enlarger
5 Safelight that's not actually safe for the paper used
6 Packaging of printing paper that's not actually light proof; e.g. paper trays, bags or boxes that leak light.

Given the pattern of fogging, I'm leaning to something involving options 1, 3, 4 or 6. The other sources usually give more diffuse fogging.

Joshua02230 · Oct 31, 2024

koraks said:
OK, thanks, so to narrow down the problem: it's specifically about this:
View attachment 382321

It looks like the paper got fogged to light while it was still light sensitive. This could happen:
* When cutting a sheet into strips
* When strips are temporarily stored before they're being used
* As the strips are handled before, during and after exposure in the darkroom environment
* As the strips are being developed and before they go into the stop bath

Potential problems to look out for:
1 Smart watches, phones or other personal apparel that emits light
2 Smoke detectors, network switches, computers or other 'standby' devices in the darkroom that have a status LED that may blink from time to time
3 Stray light from the enlarger itself due to improper masking of the negative
4 Stray light from the enlarger emanating from the lamphouse due to damage, incorrect assembly or missing parts on the enlarger
5 Safelight that's not actually safe for the paper used
6 Packaging of printing paper that's not actually light proof; e.g. paper trays, bags or boxes that leak light.

Given the pattern of fogging, I'm leaning to something involving options 1, 3, 4 or 6. The other sources usually give more diffuse fogging.

The filter draw is leaking some light (reflected onto the black wall behind the enlarger (where I am standing). I covered the leak up with some black tape for the second strip (that also has a similar problem). I think we can eliminate 4, since no other visible light could be seen when I turn off the safelight, and the whole room is dark (only the project negative lights up). I didn't carry anything into the darkroom that lights up, so 1 could also be removed. That leaves 3 and 6, I'll look into the ilford paper packaging, and be more careful when processing the paper into strips.

However, the problem does seem to be resolved once I cleaned the filter (bottom left strip), any chance that the fogging may have occurred because of fingerprints on the filter surface or dust? I also kept my safelight off for the entire exposure process for that strip, would it be possible that the safelight also played a role in this?

koraks · Oct 31, 2024

Ilford's paper packaging is fine. As long as you keep unused paper inside the (undamaged) bag, and the bag inside the closed (undamaged) box, it should be fine.

Joshua02230 said:
any chance that the fogging may have occurred because of fingerprints on the filter surface or dust?

Nope.

Joshua02230 said:
would it be possible that the safelight also played a role in this?

I don't think so; safelight fogging is nearly always more uniform. This is something that's focused pretty specifically on the affected spots.

Can you show how you've mounted the negative into the negative carrier?

Joshua02230 said:
the problem does seem to be resolved once I cleaned the filter (bottom left strip)

This suggests that the problem is/was actually related to cause #4, specifically incorrect assembly of the enlarger. Is there any way light seeps past the negative stage and also past the enlarger lens? Block the lens opening with something and then hold your head underneath the enlarger head, looking upwards, with the lamp on. There should be no light visible. Not a tiny dot.

Joshua02230 · Oct 31, 2024

koraks said:
Ilford's paper packaging is fine. As long as you keep unused paper inside the (undamaged) bag, and the bag inside the closed (undamaged) box, it should be fine.

Nope.

I don't think so; safelight fogging is nearly always more uniform. This is something that's focused pretty specifically on the affected spots.

Can you show how you've mounted the negative into the negative carrier?

For sure, see below

koraks · Oct 31, 2024

As far as I can see, that all looks perfectly fine.

I'm leaning towards some of the paper strips being fogged due to improper storage.
Did you cut several strips at a time and then put them away somewhere? How did you store them?

Joshua02230 · Oct 31, 2024

I cut 3 strips at a time from one piece of 5x7, one strip will be left on the table, face down. The other 2 un used strip for now will be left in the packaging (outside of the black plastic bag however). When they are used, they will be picked out, and placed face down on the table. The paper is fresh, I just opened the pack today for this session.

koraks · Oct 31, 2024

Joshua02230 said:
one strip will be left on the table, face down

I assume only the safelight or no light at all is present while it's there, correct?

Joshua02230 said:
The other 2 un used strip for now will be left in the packaging (outside of the black plastic bag however).

I suspect maybe this might have been the problem. It's best to put the strips into the bag, inside the box.

I sometimes put the strips emulsion-down on the bottom of the box with the bag on top, so that the bag (with uncut sheets) entirely covers the strips. This sort of works, but not reliably. For instance, here's a small test strip (color paper) I stored in a box of paper as described, but the box was put away, moved around and I only got back to it months (maybe even years) after I cut the strip:

Notice how that strip was totally fogged beyond usability.

TL;DR: store test strips inside the light proof bag along with the rest of the paper.

Joshua02230 · Oct 31, 2024

koraks said:
I assume only the safelight or no light at all is present while it's there, correct?

I suspect maybe this might have been the problem. It's best to put the strips into the bag, inside the box.

I sometimes put the strips emulsion-down on the bottom of the box with the bag on top, so that the bag (with uncut sheets) entirely covers the strips. This sort of works, but not reliably. For instance, here's a small test strip (color paper) I stored in a box of paper as described, but the box was put away, moved around and I only got back to it months (maybe even years) after I cut the strip:
View attachment 382324
Notice how that strip was totally fogged beyond usability.

TL;DR: store test strips inside the light proof bag along with the rest of the paper.

Ah... I see! I might have fogged the paper when I turned on the normal lights to examine my test strips, while they are in the paper bag. I'll make a habbit of putting them into the plastic bag. Thanks for the help! You're a savor!

koraks · Oct 31, 2024

I hope it helps!

If the problem returns, you now at least have a checklist of things to keep in mind.

The main thing is to test systematically so that you can narrow down potential sources.

jvo · Oct 31, 2024

joshua, welcome to photrio....

kudos, koraks, while much of the world slept, you two were hard at work - clear and insightful!

jvo

koraks · Oct 31, 2024

Hey, thanks! For me, it was just my morning coffee routine; always nice to be presented with a puzzle.

RalphLambrecht · Oct 31, 2024

koraks said:
OK, thanks, so to narrow down the problem: it's specifically about this:
View attachment 382321

It looks like the paper got fogged to light while it was still light sensitive. This could happen:
* When cutting a sheet into strips
* When strips are temporarily stored before they're being used
* As the strips are handled before, during and after exposure in the darkroom environment
* As the strips are being developed and before they go into the stop bath

Potential problems to look out for:
1 Smart watches, phones or other personal apparel that emits light
2 Smoke detectors, network switches, computers or other 'standby' devices in the darkroom that have a status LED that may blink from time to time
3 Stray light from the enlarger itself due to improper masking of the negative
4 Stray light from the enlarger emanating from the lamphouse due to damage, incorrect assembly or missing parts on the enlarger
5 Safelight that's not actually safe for the paper used
6 Packaging of printing paper that's not actually light proof; e.g. paper trays, bags or boxes that leak light.

Given the pattern of fogging, I'm leaning to something involving options 1, 3, 4 or 6. The other sources usually give more diffuse fogging.

It seems that you'll be best off joining a more experienced printer or taking a club or darkroom class to learn how this is done. This is not rocket science. All the best to you.

MattKing · Oct 31, 2024

Joshua02230 said:
Ah... I see! I might have fogged the paper when I turned on the normal lights to examine my test strips, while they are in the paper bag.

Welcome to Photrio.
Just one question - when you refer to the "paper bag" are you referring to the outside cardboard packaging that paper is usually sold in?
Something like this:

or something like this:

Because "paper bag" brings to mind something more like this :

Assuming the former two, and not the latter (grocery) bag, my suggestion is to buy at least one box of paper, and re-use it even if you later only buy the smaller packages afterwards.
Even better, see if you can find a "paper safe" and use it during each session.
Here is one example: https://www.freestylephoto.com/8118...URqwkvaDMeVJIJGTvm3xTnxnrGP6L2NpksYAmevO7fsbK

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