Ilford multigrade dev longevity

Spidy · Dec 12, 2023

Hi all.

Ilford states that their Multigrade developer lasts up to 2 years unopened or 6 months open in a tightly sealed bottle. However I can't find anywhere (except that it does 100 RC sheets of 8x10) how long it lasts in an accordion bottle once used sparingly after mixing it to a 1-9 strength. I have only developed about 7 or 8 sheets and would like to continue using it. It was mixed and bottled about three weeks ago.

Thoughts and comments please.

MattKing · Dec 12, 2023

Accordion bottles are potentially the worst possible choice for storage.
They are just about impossible to thoroughly clean, and their pleats are prone to letting oxygen through.
A glass bottle with a good cap is much better.
If you are concerned about handling glass, a heavy walled PET bottle with a good cap is very good - think of the material in good quality soda bottles.

BryanFlnt · Dec 12, 2023

Spidy said:
I have only developed about 7 or 8 sheets and would like to continue using it. It was mixed and bottled about three weeks ago.

I am also interested in people’s experience with this. I use a NOVA slot processor and can drain the developer into a bottle between sessions.

Related question. Do people use the color of the developer as a gauge of when it’s no longer good. i.e. where in the spectrum of clear yellow - yellow - dark yellow - light brown - dark brown do you consider the developer no good?

Philippe-Georges · Dec 13, 2023

An other way to keep an opened bottle of developer (stock, fresh or used) from oxidising is, right just before closing it, to blow Dust Off in the bottle to replace some of the oxygen with the propellant, which is a hydrocarbon gas (mainly butane) mixture and a little heavier than oxygen and thus 'floating' just above the liquid. It might mix up with the oxygen but is will be a 'poor' mixture then.

You could use carbon monoxide (or is it dioxide?), but Dust Off is much easier to find...

koraks · Dec 13, 2023

Philippe-Georges said:
You could use carbon monoxide (or is it dioxide?)

Carbon dioxide. Carbon monoxide is the lethal gas that kills many people annually.
I don't think CO2 is a particularly useful blanket gas though, in comparison with the much heavier hydrocarbons.

Philippe-Georges · Dec 13, 2023

koraks said:
Carbon dioxide. Carbon monoxide is the lethal gas that kills many people annually.
I don't think CO2 is a particularly useful blanket gas though, in comparison with the much heavier hydrocarbons.

Then Hydrocarbons are indeed preferable (what I am using for yers now)...

PS: yes dioxide, developer isn't beer (although is sometimes has the same colour)...

Andrew O'Neill · Dec 13, 2023

When I took over the photo program, I went through a few bottles of MG developer stock that had been sitting in the cupboard for a couple years, or longer. These were sealed bottles. They worked fine. Once I open a new bottle, I transfer contents to an empty PET bottle, squeezing the air out. I do this for both MG and Ilfosol-3.

Andrew O'Neill · Dec 13, 2023

In regards to those accordion bottles, at home I have been using the brown, heavy rubberised plastic ones for 30 years (from Japan). I've stored Xtol stock, which has lasted longer than a year. Those cheap, plastic ones, I'd stay away from.

Roger Cole · Dec 13, 2023

Andrew O'Neill said:
In regards to those accordion bottles, at home I have been using the brown, heavy rubberised plastic ones for 30 years (from Japan). I've stored Xtol stock, which has lasted longer than a year. Those cheap, plastic ones, I'd stay away from.

Where do you get these from Japan?

Andrew O'Neill · Dec 13, 2023

Roger Cole said:
Where do you get these from Japan?

It would have been at Camera Doi, in the town that I lived in, purchased over 30 years ago. They went belly up back in the 90's. Maybe can still be had at the other big companies, Yodobashi, or Bic Camera.

Nicholas Lindan · Dec 13, 2023

BryanFlnt said:
Related question. Do people use the color of the developer as a gauge of when it’s no longer good. i.e. where in the spectrum of clear yellow - yellow - dark yellow - light brown - dark brown ...

Personally I chuck it at the dark-yellow stage. I'm sure it is good to the dark-orange stage, but life is too short to find out.

As an aside - brown is actually a 'low value' yellow - concentrated yellow, as it were. Expired developer is yellow, it is a matter of the % of developer that has expired that determines the shade; it is always the same color.

cliveh · Dec 13, 2023

I just use a plastic drinks bottle and scrunch it up as more is used, so there is no air gap when I refit the screw top. I have stored stock solutions for years like this.

Andrew O'Neill · Dec 13, 2023

cliveh said:
I just use a plastic drinks bottle and scrunch it up as more is used, so there is no air gap when I refit the screw top. I have stored stock solutions for years like this.

That's what we do at school. Has worked quite well. I've left half full 500ml bottles with the air squeezed out over the Summer, returning in September to find that it had only yellowed a bit. Still worked great. We have to squeeze every bit out of our developers due to tight budget. At the end of the day, I float plastic wrap over the developer in the tray so that we can continue to use it the following day. Yes, it's yellow, but still works.

MattKing · Dec 13, 2023

For clarity, the colour of developer “expiration” is developer specific - other developers will behave at least slightly different. In the film developer world, for example, XTOL doesn’t change colour - it just dies.

cliveh · Dec 13, 2023

MattKing said:
For clarity, the colour of developer “expiration” is developer specific - other developers will behave at least slightly different. In the film developer world, for example, XTOL doesn’t change colour - it just dies.

No it is not. Stock solution of D76 when replenished can go the colour of black socks and still work fine, as can Rodinal.

Mark J · Dec 13, 2023

I have had problems with it several times once opened, I can believe 6 months max, but I have been able to extend this a few months more using Tetenal ( or eg. butane ) spray.
I have just bought a few Schott 250ml glass reagent bottles with sealing screw-caps to help split future bottles into keepable portions.

brian steinberger · Dec 13, 2023

In my experience multigrade developer needs to be put into smaller bottles (preferably glass) once opened. I prefer LPD which mixes up light tan to start and in my experience works well even when a darker tan.

GregY · Dec 13, 2023

Pretty much the same question was asked last month. i won't repeat what i said there but here's the link

Paper developer with long shelf life

Are there any paper developers with long shelf life? I was doing some printing the other day and my Ilford Multigrade developer (working solution) had gone bad. I set out to mix some more and noticed that the concentrate was completely brown, a very dark brown, like coffee. I poured some on a...

www.photrio.com

MattKing · Dec 13, 2023

cliveh said:
No it is not. Stock solution of D76 when replenished can go the colour of black socks and still work fine, as can Rodinal.

So you are saying what I posted - that the colour of "expired" developer depends on the developer.

Mark J · Dec 13, 2023

+1 .....

BryanFlnt · Dec 13, 2023

Nicholas Lindan said:
Personally I chuck it at the dark-yellow stage. I'm sure it is good to the dark-orange stage, but life is too short to find out.

As an aside - brown is actually a 'low value' yellow - concentrated yellow, as it were. Expired developer is yellow, it is a matter of the % of developer that has expired that determines the shade; it is always the same color.

Thanks. Helpful.

Love my Darkroom Automation F-stop timer BTW.

GregY · Dec 14, 2023

Why throw it out? How much of a gamble is it to dilute the developer and one one test strip or 5x7......

Mark J · Dec 14, 2023

Because it's not as simple as that. It will still develop, more slowly, but the quality of the prints will not be good enough. It make take you half an hour or an hour to realise this, it'll be wasted time. I'm just advising here to stop the OP going down this cul-de-sac that I have travelled a couple of times. Nicholas is correct regarding the colour 'cut off'.

Richard Jepsen · Dec 21, 2023

I notice a color change when using the Multigrade 500 ml size after 3-4 weeks. I have not done tests for activity. My previous experience printing with developers which had changed from straw to a darker color is they are compromised for fine, repeatable work. I just switched from Multigrade to LPD powder. LPD is less expensive per session and lasts longer. Nothing wrong with Multigrade….except it seems to have a short life.

Don_ih · Dec 21, 2023

cliveh said:
Stock solution of D76 when replenished can go the colour of black socks and still work fine

That's true - and almost unavoidable...

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