Ilford HC, Rodinal or Kodak HC=110?

gregmacc · Aug 27, 2009

Hi all ... I'm a beginner trying to decide which concentrated developer to go with. Traditional photography supplies retailers here in Adelaide Australia are pretty thin on the ground. Stock availability seems to be patchy at best but I'm sure they could order stuff in if requested. Ilford products seem to be more consistently on the shelves than others. I would be happier supporting local retailers (and saving the cost of postage) rather than buying from O/S or the larger Australian eastern state outlets. So considering that Ilford HC would be the most easily obtained concentrate locally are there any good reasons why I shouldn't go with HC? ... Can it be used in the same manner as the others? (Ilford's web site would suggest so) ... Does the concentrate keep as well as the others? ... Anybody using Ilford HC and happy with it?

PhotoJim · Aug 27, 2009

Ilfotec HC (if that's the one) is a good developer, similar to but not identical to HC-110. Like HC-110, it's a good general purpose developer.

Rodinal is more specialized. I wouldn't recommend it as your only developer.

Frankly, though, I think Ilford ID-11 or Kodak D-76 (which are the same), or Kodak XTOL are the best with which to learn. They aren't that hard to mix and they are easy to use. The shelf life as powders is years and the shelf life once mixed is about six months if in full bottles.

2F/2F · Aug 27, 2009

PhotoJim said:
Ilfotec HC (if that's the one) is a good developer, similar to but not identical to HC-110. Like HC-110, it's a good general purpose developer.

Rodinal is more specialized. I wouldn't recommend it as your only developer.

Frankly, though, I think Ilford ID-11 or Kodak D-76 (which are the same), or Kodak XTOL are the best with which to learn. They aren't that hard to mix and they are easy to use. The shelf life as powders is years and the shelf life once mixed is about six months if in full bottles.

I agree with the first two paragraphs, but not with the third.

Colin Corneau · Aug 27, 2009

Rodinal may be harder to get, but it keeps for years and years and years...even after opening.

I've found it's good for lower-speed films - just my opinion.

Neanderman · Aug 27, 2009

2F/2F said:
I agree with the first two paragraphs, but not with the third.

Why?

PhotoJim · Aug 27, 2009

Rodinal's terrific. It's just not great for small format fast films, unless you really don't mind grain. (The abrasive sharpness can be interesting... it's just not "general purpose".)

Rodinal deserves to be in every worker's darkroom. In fact, I suggest it to the original poster... as his second developer, once he gets used to the first. It does keep forever so it's worth having, but I would never use it as my everyday developer. I tend to use it for films of ISO 50 or less.

2F/2F · Aug 27, 2009

Neanderman said:
Why?

The OP has decided that he wants a syrupy concentrate developer. I have to agree with the OP. This makes things much better for a beginner (or for someone beyond a beginner) for a variety of reasons that have been discussed ad nauseam in other threads, not least of which is consistency (due to long shelf and high dilution).

lns · Aug 28, 2009

I think buying locally is a good idea, if you can. I like your idea of picking something you can get fairly easily.

It's hard to help you pick a developer without knowing what film you are going to use. For example, of your two choices, I would choose HC-110 (or the Ilford equivalent) if you are shooting Tri-X or HP5+. But if you are going to use Fuji Acros, then Rodinal is lovely.

I also agree that X-Tol or D-76 are fine general purpose developers, and great to start with. They are both good with a lot of different films. D-76 (or the Ilford equivalent) is probably easier to store than X-Tol.

-Laura

Thomas Bertilsson · Aug 28, 2009

There are many choices. Out of the ones you mentioned, none is a fine grain developer. They are all liquid concentrates and no one is 'better' than the other.
Pick one, and you will be equipped with something that is capable of powerful imaging. Consistency with your materials trumps ultimate 'quality' of your materials. When you know what you can expect from your materials you can really start to extend your vision. Either developer would be fine.

And to everybody else - why, just why can't Rodinal be used as an all purpose developer for every day use? I know many photographers that have used nothing else for years with anything from Efke 25 to Tri-X, 35mm to 8x10. To me Rodinal produces negatives of really fantastic tonality and sharpness - every time!
I don't use it anymore because I prefer something different. But it was the only developer I used for a couple of years with various films, and I had great results with Delta 3200 in 35mm even. I don't get that comment and notion at all.
Can someone explain what is it about HC-110 and Ilfotec HC that makes it more suitable to every day use than Rodinal?
(I have tried using them both, and to my eyes they produce the ugliest grain I have ever seen. But that's my opinion, and there are many others that use those developers with great success.)

- Thomas

Ian Grant · Aug 28, 2009

I agree Thomas, Rodinal is a great choice, I used it for erything from 35mm to LF for many years. But in truth any of the three developers the OP has listed will give excellent results.

Ian

Kevin Caulfield · Aug 28, 2009

I agree completely with Thomas. I too used Rodinal as virtually my only developer for several years and was very satisfied with the results. Whilst I now prefer something else, I have a huge stash of Rodinal and will use it again.

Anon Ymous · Aug 28, 2009

A good thing about syrupy developers is that their temperature is immaterial. Mixing water to the desired temperature is easy and adding a tiny bit of the concentrate won't affect it. D76/XTOL will need a bit more effort to get to the proper temperature, so a bit of a hassle for a beginner. So, I find concentrated developers ideal for him.

Seabird · Aug 28, 2009

Hi gregmacc from another Australian analogue user. (I'm based on the eastern seaboard - but I did fly over Adelaide yesterday on the way back from Perth )

My own experience was that after playing with ID-11, Microphen etc I adopted Rodinal as my standard developer for all the reasons you mentioned: i.e. cheap; easy to use and keeps forever. Another advantage is that it provides lots of flexibility via different dilution ratios. Search for threads about the impact of differing agitation regimes as well.

Availability of Kodak product in Australia sucks like a hoover so I wouldn't shed any tears about not supporting them. Ilford products, on the other hand (and as you've noted) are generally readily available so if you find one of their concentrated developers that you like then stick with it.

If you cant find what you need locally then use one of the Ozzie mailorder mobs. I've purchased Rodinal from Les Porter before and would happily do so again.

Cheers

Carey Bird
http://members.iinet.net.au/~cbird/index.html

gregmacc · Aug 28, 2009

Since I posted the original questions several hours ago I've been on the phone to the two main Adelaide suppliers. Their advice has generally reflected the opinions expressed here. And, as I anticipated, none of the three products discussed are on shelves locally. I've decided to go with HC-110 and have a bottle on order. From all accounts it's a good match for the last couple of exposed rolls of HP5+ I need to process, and the Arista Premium 400 / Tri-x that I plan to use in the future. Thanks one and all for your generous input.

tom_bw · Aug 28, 2009

Developer is cheap, and film is cheap (especially if you buy 100' rolls and load it yourself). Why not try a general purpose developer, such as D76 and an ultra sharp but grainy extreme, like Rodinal and compare for yourself? You will begin to see the grain / sharpness tradeoff so that you can see what you favour. I believe HC110 / Ilfotec HC are somewhat in the middle of D76 and Rodinal in these respects.

gregmacc · Aug 28, 2009

And something that will interest Aussies: According to the fellow who took my phone order for HC-110 today, Rodinal is as good as finished in this country. Apparently there is one remaining pallet (several thousand bottles) sitting in a wharehouse and that is it ... forever.

cmacd123 · Aug 29, 2009

gregmacc said:
According to the fellow who took my phone order for HC-110 today, Rodinal is as good as finished in this country. Apparently there is one remaining pallet (several thousand bottles) sitting in a wharehouse and that is it ... forever.

Did he say why?

the Rodinal name is likely to disappear, as there are licensing issues for the name itself. Here in Canada it is suposed to change to "Blatzinal" or something similar.

wogster · Aug 30, 2009

gregmacc said:
And something that will interest Aussies: According to the fellow who took my phone order for HC-110 today, Rodinal is as good as finished in this country. Apparently there is one remaining pallet (several thousand bottles) sitting in a wharehouse and that is it ... forever.

The story of Rodinal as far from complete, what happened is that Agfa Photo, who owned the name, had it manufactured by a related company, who sold it to Agfa in bulk. Agfa Photo then bottled it, and shipped it around the world as Rodinal. Agfa Photo went bankrupt. The company that actually manufactured the developer, A&O, is still in business, they are manufacturing the developer. So it's being sold to distributors directly in bulk, the distributors are bottling it, and selling it under different names, here in Canada it's known as Blazinal as the distributor is a company called Blazes Photographic. IIRC the names went to one of the intellectual property leaches and to use the name under licence would cost a fortune. You will sometimes see R09, R9, something-inal, etc. If you find out who the Oz distributor is, you can find out what they are, or will be selling it as.

Dave Pritchard · Aug 30, 2009

I use only Rodinal at present. I bought it from an ebay seller. I do plan to branch out and use other developers, but have such a love Tech Pan in Rodinal that I want to use that or a similar combination as long as possible. If it gets renamed, so be it.

nworth · Aug 30, 2009

As a beginner, you want to develop a relationship with a developer. That way you can recognize your errors and do something about them. All the developers you mentioned are excellent. Your choice should probably be based on cost and availability in your area. Personally, i like D-76, but it is far less convenient than the liquid concentrates. Your preference for them makes sense, and they will do an excellent job fo you.

John Bragg · Aug 30, 2009

Rodinal is available in Australia from Vanbar Carlton. Now called R09 One Shot but the same stuff... Hope this helps.

http://www.vanbar.com.au/catalogue/index.php?id=92.9.36.1481251676460&user=

Regards, John.

Ilford HC, Rodinal or Kodak HC=110?

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