Ilford Galerie Discussion

My base VC fiber WT papers, Oriental (older emulsion) Forte Polywarmtone Plus, and Bergger are sadly no longer available. I'm a little bummed. Looking at old prints one or two images printed on Galerie stood out. The prints enlarged from medium format glowed with rich low/mid tones. Dazzled and hopeful I ordered a 50 sheet box of 11x14 from Freestyle. Sticker shock, the price was $75 more than EMAKS graded. My (limited) experience with Galerie is most prints were not appreciable better than my discontinued VC papers. Perhaps I could get better results if I got to know the paper better. I like its neutral white base and warm/neutral gray tone vs Multigrade, Kentmere, Emaks, and Foma 111.

Around 1982 the photo community was thrilled Ilford produced this premium paper. At that time there was concern graded papers would be discontinued. The perception was VC papers were not the equal of graded. What are your thoughts on Galerie and the tricks in controlling contrast? How are people bending the image tone with developers/toners? What are graded paper advantages?

I still use the paper, although the number of grades are limited. I find Kentmere Bromide a useful paper as well because it's available in more grades.

Rich blacks and clean whites are what you get with these papers. I haven't used any toners with it and tend to switch paper when I need to change the contrast.

-rob

To control contrast I plan to switch between a condenser and diffusion light source. If I need to reduce contrast by 1/2 grade is it better bring up the image in Dektol and finish it in Selectol Soft or can you use a water bath to do the same thing?

Dr Beers Variable contrast developer is ideal for controlling contrast, Ilford used to publish the formula in the Galerie datasheets. it's widely published and easy to find online.

Selectol Soft is easy to make up, the formula is D165 which is the same as Ilford ID-3, most people use the Soft developer first then use the higher contrast dev to bring up the shadow detail.

Ian

Galerie still remains my favourite paper

It responds well to hard & soft developers – either a ready made up over the counter cocktail or do-it-yourself De Beers.

It also responds well to changes in developer strength and development time.

Print colour can be changed by choice of developer and/or toner

The paper has both a long gentle toe and shoulder, when compared to MGFB & MGWTFB

In short: it responds to the traditional darkroom skills in a way that many of the current MG papers do not – so if you have the skills you can make it “sing”

Martin

I understand Galerie is the emulsion that I am using on my Lambda with an extended red sensitivitey.

Martin Aislabie said:

Galerie still remains my favourite paper.

Martin

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It`s one of my favourites as well, although I process it with an ordinary developer.

I assume the wide exposure range of this paper (flat contrast curve??) requires brilliant negatives. Most of my negatives have CIs lower than .56. That was the reason I did not stick with Galeria. I'm thinking 120 Tri-X, EI of 160 - 200, developed in Rodinal 1:50 will produce adequate neg contrast for good prints on Galerie G3. However, my experience with Rodinal is it flattens the mid-range a tad. Umm, maybe the film/developer is not the best combination to print well on Galerie.

Why does Galerie keep developing where other papers hit a shoulder and slowly get darker with increased development? I'm sure this can be an advantage. But since the paper does not slow down developing in the tray you have to stay on top of it. This is the only paper I have used that does this.

Do graded papers have any special characteristics? Ctein in Post Exposure mentioned curve splitting. I saw this and veiling with a Forte RC paper. I don't think it is an issue with Multigrade.

one of my best paper, great if I print with pyro negative

I understand a staining developer producing a yellow/green stain can distort VC papers contrast curve. VC filters producing the high levels of magenta can produce a focus shift. The focus shift can be more than an inch with VC papers. The issue is avoided using graded paper such as Galerie. However, if a negative prints well on Galerie's highest grade 3, it should easily print using a #3 filter. Focus shift is more likely using a #5 filter.

Richard Jepsen said:

I understand a staining developer producing a yellow/green stain can distort VC papers contrast curve. VC filters producing the high levels of magenta can produce a focus shift. The focus shift can be more than an inch with VC papers. The issue is avoided using graded paper such as Galerie. However, if a negative prints well on Galerie's highest grade 3, it should easily print using a #3 filter. Focus shift is more likely using a #5 filter.

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Not quite sure what fairy stories you've been reading, but you really shouldn't believe them.

Staining developers and Magenta VC filters DO NOT produce a focus shift.

Ian

Ian Grant said:

Not quite sure what fairy stories you've been reading, but you really shouldn't believe them...

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I suspect Richard's been reading this

http://www.amazon.com/Post-Exposure-Advanced-Techniques-Photographic-Printer/dp/0240802993

and it's not a fairy tale. Enlarging lens lateral chromatic aberration can cause focus shift with VC papers; the degree of shift varies with contrast. Staining developers, however, don't enter into the shift.

Staining developers do alter the scale with VC papers, degree and type of alteration depending on stain color.

Focus shift is also mentioned in The Variable Contrast Printing Manual by Steve Anchell. I'm well read but kinda lazy when it comes to printing on graded paper with contrast altering chemical manipulations. I have a keep it simple approach. That said, with the loss of a unique papers the last few years I am expanding my horizons. This discussion can help others on the same journey. I don't believe there is one best paper but each has to be understood on its own terms. Galerie was well thought of when it came out and if price is an indicator it is a premium paper that can be part of the tool kit. The question is what are its properties and how to control it.

Having used VC papers since the release of the new modern Ilford Multigrade in the 70's with a variety of enlargers I've never seen any focus shift with even a Grade 5 filter, and a lens almost at full aperture. I've never heard of anyone having a problem either.

So it's a non issue. That doesn't mean it might not happen in extreme circumstances with certain lenses but having printed commercially since the early 70's it's not something people worry about, and the images are pin sharp

Ian

I just checked my reference. The focus shift reference in The Variable Contrast Printing Manual points back to Ctein Sept 1995 article in Camera & Darkroom magazine.

Steve Anchell wrote, "It appears likely that the shift is related to increased ultraviolet (UV) sensitivity in some modern VC emulsions." "...high-magenta VC filters pass more UV than yellow filters, and quartz-halogen lamps emit more UV than tungsten bulbs or cold light lamps." He goes on to say, "Another potential hot spot is the lens itself. The design of some lenses may cause them to focus invisible UV at a different point than the eye can see."

Ctein, Post Exposure, devotes 10 pages discussing focusing issues specific to variable contrast papers. He tends to be precise. I make small prints without high filtration and have not experienced focus issues on paper. I do see shifts with a grain focus device but can't say why.

Edge of Darkness by Barry Thornton discusses the effect of a pyro stain on VV vs graded paper.