Ilford film price question - Non UK or US

In another thread it was suggested that Ultrafine Finesse could be rebranded Ilford Pan 400 and 100. Since Ilford Pan is not available in either the UK or US, it's existence is news to me and brings up some questions. Would anybody with experience of the Ilford Pan films want to say what they think of it? How do results compare to the parallel Kentmere product or HP5+ and FP4? How about price?

Ilford Pan films are available, you can get them from Firstcall photographic, and I think that Imaging warehouse stock them, I haven't used them but from others who have it appears they are pretty much the same as the Harman Kentmere films, in fact there was a lot of talk that the Kentmere was re branded Pan films

R.Gould said:

Ilford Pan films are available, you can get them from Firstcall photographic, and I think that Imaging warehouse stock them, I haven't used them but from others who have it appears they are pretty much the same as the Harman Kentmere films, in fact there was a lot of talk that the Kentmere was re branded Pan films

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I have never shot PAN 100 or 400, (I have shot both Kentmere films) but they don't appear to be the same as Kentmere. At least some reviewers have also shot them back to back and don't see them as the same film. Here's at least one comparison

To my eye there is a noticeable difference in the behavior of bright white.

Karl

I skimmed through the review but couldn't work out what pics were what i.e. which were Pan 400 and which Kentmere 400 I had expected the same shots on the same day and light conditions and then conclusions with reference to each film and where the differences were If it is clear to others then please direct me to what i have missed

To partly answer Peter, if I recall correctly Ilford Pan was being produced by Ilford when it had the first factory tour for APUG members in June 2006. After it had acquired Kentmere who never made film it then brought out Kentmere film but I don't recall any mention of Kentmere in June 2006

If I am correct then unless it simply rebadged Ilford Pan as Kentmere and had two identical films in the market place then they are two different films What the differences are in practice I cannot say as I have never used either

The Imaging Warehouse sells Kentmere 400 and Pan 400 at the same price in 36 frame cassette form but in bulk rolls Kentmere is sold for £10 cheaper. I have no idea why no difference in cassette price but £10 cheaper for Kentmere bulk than Pan 400 bulk

In film pricing I have long since ceased to look for rhyme or reason. Down that road lies madness

pentaxuser

Looking at the Massive Development Chart, the times for Pan 400 and Kentmere 400 are quite different, so I am satisfied that they are different emulsions.

pentaxuser said:

In film pricing I have long since ceased to look for rhyme or reason. Down that road lies madness

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You have discovered a new Photrio signature line!

relistan said:

. Here's at least one comparison

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Unfortunately, the review doesn't give a direct, like with like, comparison. To show any differences or similarities, a more scientific approach could have been taken, where the same shot with the same exposure is taken side by side for Pan film & Kentmere. It's not that difficult to organise.
Otherwise, it is just the reviewer's opinion.

pbromaghin said:

Looking at the Massive Development Chart, the times for Pan 400 and Kentmere 400 are quite different, so I am satisfied that they are different emulsions.

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The developing time for Pan400 in Ilfosol 3, at 1+9 @20C is 6:30 in digital truth
The developing time for Kentmere 400 in Ilfosol 3, at 1+9 @20C is 6:30 in digital truth & Kentmere technical information sheet from Ilford

I notice that the Kentmere technical information sheet has the following: Kentmere Pan 400 heading.(is this a hint???)
https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1922/product/697/

I have never shot either film, but I do know that making film emulsions is a complicated and expensive business.
So I would ask the question, why would Ilford make 3 different emulsions when they could make 2 and repackage one emulsion under different names. It would make economic sense, especially in a business where margins are very tight.

It's a bit like the Ilford XP2 super & Fuji Neopan 400CN debate.
A lot of what we hear is marketing talk. The same snake oil but in a different bottle.

Well, back in 2014 ...
there is another Ilford film (not available in the USA)

"I have been around ILFORD Photo 27 years and we have never made a film branded ILFORD Universal.

ILFORD PAN 100 and PAN 400 films are lower cost ( and entirely different films from ILFORD and KENTMERE branded films ) offered in some export markets and with some specialist retailers.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited."

foc said:

I notice that the Kentmere technical information sheet has the following: Kentmere Pan 400 heading.(is this a hint???)
https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1922/product/697/

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Looking at that data sheet there is an odd discrepancy between the time given for D-76 and ID-11, which surely should have a virtually identical development time.

Tom Kershaw said:

Looking at that data sheet there is an odd discrepancy between the time given for D-76 and ID-11, which surely should have a virtually identical development time.

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This has been addressed in a long-ago thread. https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...50 ml (actually,mm roll/8x10 sheet equivalent.

Basically when using a 1+1 dilution, Kodak requires an extra volume of solution while Ilford increases development time.

Pan and Kentmere are not the same. I've shot both. Ilford Pan 100 and Pan 400 were originally developed by Harman before they offered Kentmere brand films as cheaper films for certainl markets. They were not officially available in the UK but some retailers were able to stock them. Then Ilford/Harman bought the rights to the Kentmere name and created another 100 and 400 panchromatic B&W film under the Kentmere name. At the time we were assured that Ilford Pan 400, Kentmere 400 and Ilford HP5+ were all different. Having used all three I would agree.

More recent branding exercises such as the current Agfa Photo APX products might be renamed Kentmere but the Ilford Pan films are not.

As for which is better? Depends what you're looking for. Both are good. Neither is as flexible as HP5+.