Ilford fibre contamination

Chrishuddersfield · Mar 31, 2022

Hello all,
I have recently started printing on fibre. Today I spent all day at college printing and I noticed at the end of the day some of my prints had loads of tiny dark dots on the back. Some of the prints it came through to the front. I was careful as usual with my chemistry etc and have no idea where these came from. I’ve spent 7 hours today printing and I’m afraid these dots won’t go when it dries. Any one else experienced any thing like this? I’m new to this so apologies if this is a daft question.

Any help or info would be appreciated.

Thanks

Peter Schrager · Mar 31, 2022

Chris try to rewash the prints and then run through some hypo wash and then wash again. does the darkroom have an archival washer??
could be cross contamination from dirty trays. public darkrooms can be a hard place to make proper prints

MattKing · Mar 31, 2022

Peter Schrager said:
could be cross contamination from dirty trays

+1

Mainecoonmaniac · Mar 31, 2022

Along with fixer contamination, if you're using drying screens, that might be the source of your spots too. All it takes is one person with contaminated prints to leave fixer on the drying screen.

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 1, 2022

Peter Schrager said:
Chris try to rewash the prints and then run through some hypo wash and then wash again. does the darkroom have an archival washer??
could be cross contamination from dirty trays. public darkrooms can be a hard place to make proper prints

hello

thanks for the info.
Yes it has a washer. I went through the usual process , followed by hypo clean then the washer. I noticed these dots before the hypo clean stage though..:/
It’s a communal darkroom at university. More scope for things going wrong perhaps.. eventually I’ll do these at home but the washer systems are expensive.

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 1, 2022

MattKing said:
+1

Thanks definitely will do that

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 1, 2022

Mainecoonmaniac said:
Along with fixer contamination, if you're using drying screens, that might be the source of your spots too. All it takes is one person with contaminated prints to leave fixer on the drying screen.

Thanks, well noted.

NB23 · Apr 1, 2022

Can be anything, please Show pictures.

Have you toned the prints? Toner, any toner, never mixes well with residual fixer, for example. Will leave dots, stains...

NB23 · Apr 1, 2022

Drying screens made of window screens made out of metal mesh (as opposed to fiberglass) will always leave Dots of rust... so there’s that. Seen this happen a lot.

MARTIE · Apr 1, 2022

Were all of the prints washed individually, with no new prints, either of your own or by others sharing the darkroom, mixed together with your 'older' half washed prints?

Or were prints stacked, put one after another, directly mixing cleaner and dirtier prints in the same wash?

Fraunhofer · Apr 1, 2022

Iron in the water could be another reason, I sometimes got very stubborn dark spots after sepia toning...

Doremus Scudder · Apr 1, 2022

The most-usual culprit in my experience is a dirty developer tray. Often the sludge on the developer tray will transfer to the back of the print. Not a real problem as long as the spots don't bleed through. Try cleaning your trays and see if that helps. Often the spots will rub off if you catch them just out of the fix. I'll turn my prints over in the water holding tray and gently rub the spots with a finger to remove them, or most of them.

Best,

Doremus

mshchem · Apr 1, 2022

Call Ilford during normal business hours. Send an email. These forums are great but I would think Ilford would be able to help, have the package of paper on hand.

A quick examination by (in the dark), pulling out a sheet of paper, and examine it in room light to see if there are spots.

otto.f · Apr 2, 2022

Chrishuddersfield said:
college printing

You should try this at home

xtol121 · Apr 3, 2022

Hi, I actually ran into this same problem in July of 2021 and have been in touch with Sue Evans at Ilford about this. Unfortunately work has been overwhelming and I haven't had much luck getting back into the darkroom this fall and winter to troubleshoot further. I'd suggest reaching out to Sue and explaining the problem. Use the contact form on the Ilford website and ask for Sue Evans regarding defects on Ilford FB paper.

Essentially what I gathered was the base had some inconsistencies which cause spots that look dark when front lit, but if you back light you will see them as bright dots. They were able to replicate it in their lab with a certain batch of paper of which mine was part of. They sent me a fresh box of paper from a new batch to replace/test with, but I haven't had a chance to set up the darkroom.

For reference I was using Ilford Warmtone FB paper. Attached is an example of the defect, held up to a light backlighting the paper and photographed via iPhone.

AgX · Apr 3, 2022

NB23 said:
Drying screens made of window screens made out of metal mesh (as opposed to fiberglass) will always leave Dots of rust...

Such metal weavings are made from aluminium and from stainless steel too.

AgX · Apr 3, 2022

xtol121 said:
Essentially what I gathered was the base had some inconsistencies...

No good news, seen that the paper mill in question is kind of sole supplier to the photo industry.

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 13, 2022

NB23 said:
Can be anything, please Show pictures.

Have you toned the prints? Toner, any toner, never mixes well with residual fixer, for example. Will leave dots, stains...

Thanks I’ll take some. Regards

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 13, 2022

NB23 said:
Drying screens made of window screens made out of metal mesh (as opposed to fiberglass) will always leave Dots of rust... so there’s that. Seen this happen a lot.

Thanks for the info

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 13, 2022

NB23 said:
Can be anything, please Show pictures.

Have you toned the prints? Toner, any toner, never mixes well with residual fixer, for example. Will leave dots, stains...

Thanks. I’ve not toned them yet. Some of the dots vanished after drying though.

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 13, 2022

mshchem said:
Call Ilford during normal business hours. Send an email. These forums are great but I would think Ilford would be able to help, have the package of paper on hand.

A quick examination by (in the dark), pulling out a sheet of paper, and examine it in room light to see if there are spots.

Thanks , appreciated

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 13, 2022

Doremus Scudder said:
The most-usual culprit in my experience is a dirty developer tray. Often the sludge on the developer tray will transfer to the back of the print. Not a real problem as long as the spots don't bleed through. Try cleaning your trays and see if that helps. Often the spots will rub off if you catch them just out of the fix. I'll turn my prints over in the water holding tray and gently rub the spots with a finger to remove them, or most of them.

Best,

Doremus

Thanks. I think this might of been the reason. I’ve cleaned the trays and touch wood it’s been fine since.

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 13, 2022

xtol121 said:
Hi, I actually ran into this same problem in July of 2021 and have been in touch with Sue Evans at Ilford about this. Unfortunately work has been overwhelming and I haven't had much luck getting back into the darkroom this fall and winter to troubleshoot further. I'd suggest reaching out to Sue and explaining the problem. Use the contact form on the Ilford website and ask for Sue Evans regarding defects on Ilford FB paper.

Essentially what I gathered was the base had some inconsistencies which cause spots that look dark when front lit, but if you back light you will see them as bright dots. They were able to replicate it in their lab with a certain batch of paper of which mine was part of. They sent me a fresh box of paper from a new batch to replace/test with, but I haven't had a chance to set up the darkroom.

For reference I was using Ilford Warmtone FB paper. Attached is an example of the defect, held up to a light backlighting the paper and photographed via iPhone. View attachment 302103

Thanks for the info. I’ve had these little spots also.

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 13, 2022

AgX said:
Such metal weavings are made from aluminium and from stainless steel too.

Thanks

Chrishuddersfield · Apr 13, 2022

AgX said:
No good news, seen that the paper mill in question is kind of sole supplier to the photo industry.

Thanks

Ilford fibre contamination

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