Ilford FB Multigrade in jobo drum - fog

nze · Oct 2, 2006

Hello all

I don't What's up with my ilford paper. These last days I've decided to print some large bw print and I've wanted to do it in jobo drum with my CPA.
But with the ilford MG fiber base paper I have I 've got a dichroic fog ( little pink) + a gray fog.
I've tried different developer and it result in fog. I thought that it comes from a bad wahsing , but giving a try with another paper Ilford fix grade give me a great print

I think the problem comes from my batch of MG paper and will please o know if anyone got the same problem here and if there is any solution.

best

Bob F. · Oct 2, 2006

First try a sheet out of the middle of the pack. In total darkness (or shield your safelight to give an absolute minimum of light needed to avoid bumping in to the furniture) do not expose it but put it straight in to the developer and process it as normal.

If you are not used to using fibre paper in the Jobo, make sure the emulsion side is facing the inside (i.e. not against the wall) of the drum and that there is enough chemicals in the drum.

If it is still showing fog, and you are sure there are no light leaks anywhere, then it seems the paper is fogged and I do not think there is anything you can do about it in practice (adding benzotriazole to the developer may help but it's probably more trouble than it is worth).

It is then a question of why it is fogged. Can happen any number of ways: old paper, chemical fume contamination in storage, dampness, heat damage in storage etc, etc... If it is fogged and you can't figure out why, contact Ilford with the batch number.

Good luck, Bob.

jeroldharter · Oct 2, 2006

Although I have never experimented with my Jobo, I understand that the drums are not designed for Fiber Based paper. RC would work. I imagine you are getting an artifact of poor/incomplete processing. If you can figure it out, please post because I would like to do 20 x 24 FB in the drums.

bob100684 · Oct 2, 2006

underfixing?

Rolleiflexible · Oct 2, 2006

jeroldharter said:
Although I have never experimented with my Jobo, I understand that the drums are not designed for Fiber Based paper. RC would work. I imagine you are getting an artifact of poor/incomplete processing. If you can figure it out, please post because I would like to do 20 x 24 FB in the drums.

I use a Jobo 3063 tank to do 16x20 prints using Agfa and Ilford fiber papers and they turn out fine. Their paper bases have some rib indentations from the tank sides when I take them out of the tank but they go away in the wash.

I avoided using the Jobo tank with fiber papers for a long time on the basis of this word-of-mouth. I'm glad I finally gave it a try. Nothing like experience for a teacher.

Sanders.

Photo Engineer · Oct 2, 2006

What kind of stop and fix did you use?

PE

cblkdog · Oct 3, 2006

Why would you use a Jobo instead of trays?

Rolleiflexible · Oct 3, 2006

Why?

cblkdog said:
Why would you use a Jobo instead of trays?

(1) You have a tiny darkroom (mine is a darkcloset) and don't have room for big trays.

(2) You want to process a lot of prints at one time. I can process five 8x10s at once in my 3005 tank and save myself a lot of time and hassle.

Dave Miller · Oct 3, 2006

jeroldharter said:
Although I have never experimented with my Jobo, I understand that the drums are not designed for Fiber Based paper. RC would work. I imagine you are getting an artifact of poor/incomplete processing. If you can figure it out, please post because I would like to do 20 x 24 FB in the drums.

Not so, they handle FB very well.

Dave Miller · Oct 3, 2006

cblkdog said:
Why would you use a Jobo instead of trays?

Less chemicals wasted, and less fumes.

nze · Oct 3, 2006

Thanks all
I 'll give another try to this paper tonight. But it works quite well in tray .

As Dave wrote, less chemical and the easiness to use with large format , lead me to jobo drum. I rarely use it for small format. But when I need to make only 10 small prints, it still use less chemicals than a full tray.

I'll keep you inform. (I'll add some bb coimpond )

Best

nze · Oct 3, 2006

just forget to add that using tube and Processor offer the possibility to well control the temperature.

Bob F. · Oct 3, 2006

nze said:
Thanks all
I 'll give another try to this paper tonight. But it works quite well in tray .

As Dave wrote, less chemical and the easiness to use with large format , lead me to jobo drum. I rarely use it for small format. But when I need to make only 10 small prints, it still use less chemicals than a full tray.

I'll keep you inform. (I'll add some bb coimpond )

Best

When you say: "it works quite well in tray" - do you mean there is no fogging when you use the same paper in a tray and you only get fogging in the drum? If so, the fault is clearly not with the paper.

When processing paper, the temperature is not critical: anything at room temperature will do. Paper develops to completion (more or less), so time & temperature is far, far less important than it is for film.

Cheers, Bob.

buze · Oct 3, 2006

I know it is slightly OT, but does anyone know if I can process several prints in a Paterson Orbital ? I'm chickening out of trying it, and I didn't get the documentation with the device...

Dave Miller · Oct 3, 2006

buze said:
I know it is slightly OT, but does anyone know if I can process several prints in a Paterson Orbital ? I'm chickening out of trying it, and I didn't get the documentation with the device...

Of course you can, provided that they cannot overlap.

nze · Oct 3, 2006

Bob F. said:
When you say: "it works quite well in tray" - do you mean there is no fogging when you use the same paper in a tray and you only get fogging in the drum? If so, the fault is clearly not with the paper.

Cheers, Bob.

Yes there is no problem in tray. And it is the only paper I 've got problem with in tube. I still don't try with antifog or with shorten dev.
Cheers, Christian

Bob F. · Oct 3, 2006

nze said:
Yes there is no problem in tray. And it is the only paper I 've got problem with in tube. I still don't try with antifog or with shorten dev.
Cheers, Christian

If the same paper it is OK in the tray then clearly there is nothing wrong with the paper. My guess would be that you did something wrong when using the Jobo (paper wrong way around, insufficient volume of chemicals, accidentally missed out the fixer etc). Try it again, making sure you have allowed for the fact that fibre paper absorbs much more chemicals than resin coated paper. If it works in a tray, it should certainly work in the tube.

Good luck, Bob.

juanito · Oct 3, 2006

I try once to process Ilford MG FB with my jobo processor, I didn't like the results. I went back to tray processing. Maybe the FB paper in a Jobo processor doesn't has the time to absorb well enaugh the chemicals as in tray processing.

Dave Miller · Oct 4, 2006

Although I use mainly Kentmere paper I have used Ilford's MG FB, and cannot recall getting poor results due to the drum processing routine.
I once had a problem that may be relevant, and that was due to my not completely washing out the lid and cap. It meant that the developer for the next print became slightly contaminated with the old fixer. I took a while to latch on to that.

jeroldharter · Oct 4, 2006

This is a very informative thread. It shows that sometimes I should just try something. I have been avoiding 20 x 24 prints even though I have a massive amount of paper in that size because dealing with the trays is a pain. However, using a Jobo drum could be a great way to go. I would be inclined to do a couple of rinses between stop and fix and again between fix and hypo-clear to minimize solution carryover.

nze · Oct 18, 2006

Hi all
And thanks again for your answers. In fact the problem comes from the paper. I buy another batch of ilford mg to another store and I don't get the problem. .

I still do not understand why I have a pink stain and fog when process in tube and nothing when I develop in tray( surely too much gitation). But with the new paper I bought I can use the paper both way without any trouble

best

Dave Miller · Oct 18, 2006

Thanks for the update Christian.

Bob F. · Oct 18, 2006

Yes, thanks Christian for telling us what the results were. I use nearly constant agitation in my Nova and Dave uses a Jobo, so it's all very odd...

I wonder if Ilford might have some explanation why that should happen.

Cheers, Bob.

Xmas · Oct 19, 2006

My rebates are clear, but I have poor blacks, my paper stock is 20 + years old. I'm getting some fresh developer used up my last. Is there any problem with tube development apart from lack of inspection?

Noel
P.S. I do have trays but they are full of camera parts, each tray has a complete set I hope...

jeroldharter · Oct 21, 2006

I meant to ask:

In regard to processing fiber based prints in Jobo drums, are you processing one print per drumor multiple prints per drum? I haven't tried it yet so I wonder if multiple prints are possible.

Ilford FB Multigrade in jobo drum - fog

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