Ilford Express

[Pitotshock]

Anyone here ever use the Ilford Express RC papers in the traditional darkroom process? I realize these are high speed papers designed for machine printing, and their speed is quite fast. I'm used to printing on the RA4 color papers, so I assume that this would be similar in speed.

Something like this: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/138034-REG/Ilford_1956652_Multigrade_RC_Express_20_x98.html

Experiences?

 

[gone]

That's a good question. Have you thought of calling a good, custom lab? They might know. I like the prices (so this may be one of those you get what you pay things) because there's some online that's 20" by nearly 100' for $170. I can only imagine what that roll weighs.

 

[cramej]

There would be very little possibility of burning or dodging with this type of paper. You'd basically end up with a straight print at whatever contrast you choose - a one-and-done sort of thing.

 

[Pitotshock]

very little possibility of burning or dodging with this type of paper

I hear ya. Have you seen the Youtube video put out by Ilford on dodging and burning? The lady does a 1.5 second base exposure with 3.5 seconds of dodging on the main subject. My initial thoughts were, wow this lady likes to work fast, even with my colour work I like exposures in the 12 to 20 second time scale, not 1.5s.

 

[MattKing]

As I understand it, those papers will have strange reciprocity failure characteristics if you try to use them with the light levels and exposure times that we generally prefer when using an enlarger.

 

[craigclu]

I had a 250 box (8X10) of this by mistake many years back. I see they only list rolls for automated machines now? My son and daughter were in music/theater productions back in those years of their school programs and I would do dress rehearsal shots, usually on the night before opening. I was using a Bronica RF645, HP5+, Agfatronic 643 and a variation of PyroCat that was giving me negatives that almost printed themselves and seldom required manipulations. The paper was a god send for rapid duty like that. I could knock out 30-40 solid lobby prints that kept the theater-goers busy and they made great souvenirs for the performers. I would say they were 95% of what they could be and for that application, the paper was ideal.

 

[craigclu]

I had an album by my desk and recalled printing a batch of shots quickly on the Express paper for friends' kids.... Just thought I'd pop up an example. I realize this was 16 years ago as I look at this and my son's date is now a practicing physician! Feeling old as I type this....

 

[Pitotshock]

Well that doesn't look too bad, do you remember any problems with crazy short exposure times or stopping the lens down to f22 or something? For the price of the express paper, I'm tempted to give it a try.

 

[craigclu]

I think I recall (many years back, though) that my negatives were so consistent with controlled lighting/exposure (especially the stage-lit stuff) that I was picking 3.5 to 5 seconds range and on rush projects like the lobby prints, one quickly got in the groove of tweaking when needed and I recall very few reprints. I would go right onto the stage with the performers at dress rehearsal and my on-camera flash acted as fill for the heavy stage lighting, evening out what could be contrasty situations and angles. This wasn't fine art but people not accustomed to solid MF prints were quite amazed at the detail. I wouldn't want the paper for serious work but it was ideal for projects like this. I would go home, develop the negatives, print them the next morning I use a 90 HM APO which is meant to be used at more open apertures but I'm sure I had it cranked down to ƒ11 or so to keep exposure times halfway controlled. My Metrolux timer is ideal for this as I could pre-program 3 different times to quickly access an appropriate time. I don't recall pounding out prints like that since. I recall using a small enlarger light probe to double check negatives that I questioned my intuition on so that helped speed things and avoid re-printing. With general contrast range so well controlled, I could meter a performer's forehead as a general reference point and other densities would fall into place. I never bought more of it as I think it would be difficult to use for serious duties and I didn't have a need for the speed after those school projects.

 

[pentaxuser]

Craig, so that's 3.5 -5 secs at f11 which is quite short times but I take that at these times there were no reciprocity problems at that light level.

Was this with fllters over or under lens which add time on?

It sounds as if for straight prints i.e. no dodging or burning there is no reason not to use this paper

I wonder if at f16 and thus some time for reasonably straightforward D&B any reciprocity problems might have arisen

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

The reciprocity problems would have arisen when people changed magnifications or contrast filtration. The behavior after those changes would have been much less linear and much harder to predict. The paper would be harder to use in those sorts of ordinary circumstances, not impossible to use.

 

[craigclu]

Enough time has passed that my detailed memory is suspect.... I don't recall anything too challenging and perhaps about twice as sensitive as normal RC MG? The broad middle contrast with these materials likely was a part of the printing flexibility. I recall experimenting at the time with a personal variation of PyroCat, using Dimezone-S during that time. It didn't provide any measurable difference with phenidone versions and I abandoned those experiments at the time. The skin tone contrasts were perfect for quick printing and the 3-D depth of skin tones made for simple printing of the sort of images I was dealing with.