Ilford Delta 3200 35mm Perf in Bulkl 100' rolls?

aoresteen · Nov 22, 2014

I'm looking for Ilford Delta 3200 35mm perforated 100 feet bulk roll but I can't seem to find it. B&H has uperf stock listed but no perf. Strange. I looked through the Ilford catalod but did not see it.

I sent Illford a note but it's the weekend so I thought I'd ask here. Does Ilford make Delta 3200 in bulk 35mm perf rolls? A 36exp roll from B&H is $11.00 but a 120 roll is $6. At that price I would prefer to roll my own.

TIA!

MattKing · Nov 22, 2014

There is no listing for it on their August 2014 Product Availability list that is linked to on their website.

Xmas · Nov 22, 2014

It should be on this page

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/products/productlist.asp?n=10&t=

pentaxuser · Nov 22, 2014

Sorry no it doesn't. Not really sure why. I assume that it's a question of demand but given that it is produced in lengths of many 100s of feet like any other film then bulk rolls of 30m or 17m would be easier to make than the cutting etc that is required for 36 frame cassettes, wouldn't it and clearly Ilford sells enough of it to continue its production.

I think its the only fast film left so Ilford hasn't got the kind of competition that makes branching out to bulk rolls a risky proposition. If it weren't to sell enough to warrant whatever is required to make up bulk rolls then we'd just have to accept that but we and Ilford won't know until it tries

If I recall correctly Simon Galley himself confesses to uses D3200 even when he could use slower film. He can't be the only one who would choose to do the same , can he?

There may be flaws in my argument above but it would be nice to know what does prevent Ilford from giving D3200 bulk rolls a try

pentaxuser

Dr Croubie · Nov 22, 2014

The only potential reason I can think of to not make D3200 in bulk is that because it's faster, it expires and fogs quicker. Put some in a bulkloader and leave it out at room temperature and it'll go bad a lot quicker than in separate pre-rolls in the fridge/freezer.
Either that, or just the process of bulk-loading might not be extremely light-tight as needed by such a fast film. Might not be noticeable at 100 but any leaks will show up badly at 3200/6400/12800.

Not that it's particularly Ilford's fault if you leave stuff out long enough that it goes bad or your loader leaks light, but maybe they decided that it's not worth the bad publicity if that does happen. (Welcome to the internet, we got whingers).

aoresteen · Nov 22, 2014

Dr Croubie said:
The only potential reason I can think of to not make D3200 in bulk is that because it's faster, it expires and fogs quicker. Put some in a bulkloader and leave it out at room temperature and it'll go bad a lot quicker than in separate pre-rolls in the fridge/freezer.
Either that, or just the process of bulk-loading might not be extremely light-tight as needed by such a fast film. Might not be noticeable at 100 but any leaks will show up badly at 3200/6400/12800.

Not that it's particularly Ilford's fault if you leave stuff out long enough that it goes bad or your loader leaks light, but maybe they decided that it's not worth the bad publicity if that does happen. (Welcome to the internet, we got whingers).

When I load bulk film, I load out the entire roll in one sitting. I then put most of it into a 1 gal ziplock freezer bag and freeze it, keeping out 5 rolls or so. Fogging should not be an issue. I never leave film in the bulk loader as I might forget that there is film in it and opening it by mistake, fogging the film. Yes, I've done that

pentaxuser · Nov 22, 2014

Of course even if Ilford decide to sell bulk rolls of D3200 the demand for these might depend on the price differential between 36 frame cassettes and the equivalent in bulk rolls. Bulk rolls in general seem not to represent the kind of savings that were once possible compared to 36 frame cassettes. Indeed if I recall correctly there have been posts that demonstrated that the savings were either zero or even negative

I have never understood what changes in bulk v cassettes that have decreased the savings that were once possible with bulk. I haven't understood the changes because I have never seen the reasons.

Anyone seen an explanation from a maker?

pentaxuser
pentaxuser

MartinP · Nov 23, 2014

Remember that a bulk roll has to be handled separately for printing the frame-numbers etc. and the packing has to be completely different than any other stock-item. I expect they have done a cost versus sales study and drawn a particular conclusion. You could make a request during the 2015 special-orders process though, to see how many others might want a similar order.

Simon R Galley · Nov 24, 2014

Dear Aerosteen,

Delta Professional 3200 is my favourite film, I absolutely love it....and I do use it all the time ( rated at 1600 and developed in DDX ).

But..... its a 'specialist' film therefore it is sold in lower volumes than a conventional 100iso or 400iso and a BULK Roll would not be viable to produce, that's not say some people would not like it or buy it, one difficulty is that it would be a very 'slow mover' and therefore not always easy to sell outside of the bigger specialist re-sellers.

For instance, its not available in 24exp either, but it is in 120 of course. It would not appear in the ULF and Custom offering as the 'product' is available in the market although not in the form 'ideal' for you. Sorry.

The fundamental of Bulk ( apart from some unique applications ) was people loading their own, and looking for the most 'cost effective' way to purchase film and in many cases it was students who typically didn't have a lot, but needed a lot of film, and of course everyone sold them, we continue to sell, and will continue to do so, 30.5m Bulk lengths, in the range we have now. BUT we ensure that they are priced at a better price into distribution than finished cassetted film, a 30.5m Bulk roll contains 1.0675 m2 of film you can roll 17.58 rolls of 36 ( including tops and tails ) with 1m2 of film and therefore still obtain a price advantage.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

flavio81 · Nov 24, 2014

Considering Delta 3200 can be pushed to EI 12500, i'd be afraid of putting it into a bulk loader!! (for fear of slightly fogging the film)

Ricardo Miranda · Nov 24, 2014

Thanks Simon!

Considering Delta 3200 can be pushed to EI 12500, i'd be afraid of putting it into a bulk loader!! (for fear of slightly fogging the film)

Imagine putting it into a 250 exp. roll back!

Ricardo Miranda · Nov 24, 2014

Tony
Have you tried pushing HP5+ or PAN 400 to 3200?
I'm asking this because these 2 films can be pushed and are available in bulk loads.
And it could be a solution for you if you like the results.

aoresteen · Nov 26, 2014

Simon R Galley said:
Dear Aerosteen,

Delta Professional 3200 is my favourite film, I absolutely love it....and I do use it all the time ( rated at 1600 and developed in DDX ).

But..... its a 'specialist' film therefore it is sold in lower volumes than a conventional 100iso or 400iso and a BULK Roll would not be viable to produce, that's not say some people would not like it or buy it, one difficulty is that it would be a very 'slow mover' and therefore not always easy to sell outside of the bigger specialist re-sellers.

For instance, its not available in 24exp either, but it is in 120 of course. It would not appear in the ULF and Custom offering as the 'product' is available in the market although not in the form 'ideal' for you. Sorry.

The fundamental of Bulk ( apart from some unique applications ) was people loading their own, and looking for the most 'cost effective' way to purchase film and in many cases it was students who typically didn't have a lot, but needed a lot of film, and of course everyone sold them, we continue to sell, and will continue to do so, 30.5m Bulk lengths, in the range we have now. BUT we ensure that they are priced at a better price into distribution than finished cassetted film, a 30.5m Bulk roll contains 1.0675 m2 of film you can roll 17.58 rolls of 36 ( including tops and tails ) with 1m2 of film and therefore still obtain a price advantage.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Simon,

Thank you for your reply! You make perfect sense considering the low sales of the film. Will Delta 3200 30.5m 35mm bulk be an option for the 2015 ULF program? How many rolls would you need to have before you would produce it?

Ricardo Miranda · Nov 26, 2014

Tony
Read again:

It would not appear in the ULF and Custom offering as the 'product' is available in the market although not in the form 'ideal' for you. Sorry.

aoresteen · Nov 26, 2014

Ricardo Miranda said:
Tony
Have you tried pushing HP5+ or PAN 400 to 3200?
I'm asking this because these 2 films can be pushed and are available in bulk loads.
And it could be a solution for you if you like the results.

Ricardo,

Before I answer that let me say that I first used HP-5 in 1976 and it's been my primary film for decades. I use HC-110 B for my developer but I've used D-76, Microdol-X, Acufine, Diafin, Xtol, GAF developer, Rodinal, and many others over the years but I always come back to HC-110B. I've even developed it (and Tri-X) in Dektol.

It is my belief based on my experience that you can NOT "push" film speed. All you can do is under expose and extend development to increase contrast but you will be way off the straight line portion of the H&D curve. Each film has one and only one "ISO" sensitivity and a developer can not change that sensitivity. Push all you want and then make a proper proof and you will see that the film is under exposed.

If you don't know what a proper proof is then read Fred Picker's book "Zone VI Workshop". Basically a proper proof is made by exposing the clear edge of the negative the minimum amount of time to get a maximum black on the proof paper.

My working EI for HP-5 is 200. I would expect that the working EI for Delta 3200 would be around 640-800 which is why I would like to use it. Note that Simon uses it at 1600 not 3200.

OK, let the flames come out!

aoresteen · Nov 26, 2014

Ricardo Miranda said:
Tony
Read again:

Opps! I missed it. My bad.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Ricardo Miranda · Nov 26, 2014

Thanks Tony.

Ilford Delta 3200 35mm Perf in Bulkl 100' rolls?

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