Ilford: Defend the Darkroom

Ian Grant · Sep 19, 2007

We can attack Ilford all we want, but they have changed their distribution policies in the US market far more than in the UK.

What all manufacturers and distributors of analog materials have to realise is that those of us who still use their products have been badly let down by the old conventional market place.

We would still like to buy through those old suppliers but they are often too afraid the market has disappeared, and they are too scared to take a risk !

Now the major problem is the old conventional importers have lost touch with the market place for analog materials and need to be replaced.

Ian

Discpad said:
Dear Simon:

Did it occur to you that maybe, just maybe, your whole distribution strategy for here in the United States needs to be radically changed, to follow the "supply chain management" (SCM) that thousands of mid-sized companies use, to "hit above their weight?"

As I see it, your fine company got so tied up in the changeover (or more accurately, product expansion) from film to film + inkjet, that you forgot to "mind the store" and adapt your (U.S.) distribution model to changing best SCM practices.

As you see it from your vantage point in England, you have the U.K. market th, I'd like to sit down with you with a pen & paper to `splain this better.

Discpad · Sep 19, 2007

Ian, I'm not attacking Ilford at all: As you point out, the distribution model has changed here at the same time as the market changed; and that is my point precisely.

FoMoCo (Ford Motor Company) has a new internal campaign: Change or Die. Given that they are losing about $4800 per car they sell, they have no choice.

Ilford is in a different position, though: They need to completely restructure their distribution to an SCM model, so that they can get their products into the hands of their customers quickly and inexpensively, i.e. efficiently.

Having never been to Turkey, I cannot intelligently comment on how mature the practice of SCM is in your country.

Ian Grant said:
We can attack Ilford all we want, but they have changed their distribution policies in the US market far more than in the UK.

What all manufacturers and distributors of analog materials have to realise is that those of us who still use their products have been badly let down by the old conventional market place.

We would still like to buy through those old suppliers but they are often too afraid the market has disappeared, and they are too scared to take a risk !

Now the major problem is the old conventional importers have lost touch with the market place for analog materials and need to be replaced
.
Ian

Mahler_one · Sep 19, 2007

Now for some TShirts with the "Save the Darkroom" mantra...

Edwin

david b · Sep 19, 2007

Instead of buying $50 t-shirts, go spend $50 in supplies.

mtbbrian · Sep 19, 2007

rtuttle said:
Makes me wish they were an American based company so we could have the same influence in our school systems. Wish we had a photo company, oh wait we do Kodak are you reading these forums like Ilford does? Wouldn't matter anyway, they (Kodak) wouldn't do anything.

I'll second that.
But I am VERY GRATEFUL that Ilford is doing something!
Brian

herb · Sep 19, 2007

Ilford Rules

It is a question;as to prices, when the pound is astronomical, the dollar is in the dirt, but Kentmere is cheap, and Ilford reasonable. Kodak has been hijacked by the accountants and the fund managers who demand performance in numbers only.

We can make a difference in Ilford's presence by continuing to buy from them and to give forth all kind of atta boys whenever we can.

Face it, wet photographers are not in it for mass production- they are (they hope) artiste'.

Jawboning will help, and the fact that Harman Ilford is not as big as the old Ilford means they plan on staying.

Let's home our government can make political changes that will help the dollar and enable Ilford to become more widespread in the US

nworth · Sep 19, 2007

I strongly applaud Ilford's efforts to defend the darkroom. They have done some excellent marketing to assure us of a continuing supply of film and darkroom supplies. I am happy to see Ilford paper available even in some fairly remote places in the US. This becomes a long term battle. To defend the darkroom, there needs to be continuing institutional and product advertising to keep up public awareness and curiosity. Unfortunately, that is expensive, and it reduces the short term bottom line, although it helps insure the long term future.

I am in the process of moving. When choosing my new house, a suitable space for a darkroom was high on my list of requirements. I certainly won't spend enough on darkroom supplies to have much effect on Ilford's future, but I want a good variety of film and paper to remain available so I can happily explore my hobby.

I joined the camera club in my new community. Of the 15 to 20 people at the first meeting I attended, only two of us used film to any extent. I was the only one who did any amount of black and white (and I don't do much black and white). The club as a whole considers film to be insignificant and generally will not deal with it. That says something.

JanaM · Sep 20, 2007

Thanks Ilford, great idea!! Ilford, please go on!
I would like to see similar initiatives in other countries. Why not with some partners? Other manufacturers, local distributors, local apug Members etc.

Best regards,
Jana

tim_walls · Sep 20, 2007

Here's just a general thought:

Instead of complaining that Ilford or Kodak or anyone else isn't going to save the world for us (and I do think that some of the commentary in this thread has been churlish at best - quite how anyone expects a company of Ilford's size to single handedly revive the market in every territory on Earth simultaneously is beyond me,) can't we think about what 'we' can do ourselves?

I mean, to take a trivial example (and to somewhat cross the streams with another thread,) if there are no good magazines about traditional photography out there, but we don't believe it's because of a lack of potential market - instead of banging on about how rubbish all the magazines are, why not start one? God knows the talent is here; APUG's commercial relationships give a massive headstart in terms of sponsorship and advertising compared to many other 'niche' or grass-roots endeavours, and thanks to the Internet and digital printing (yes, I said it,) on-demand publishing is a realistic venture these days.

If North America, say, needs someone to promote the darkroom; to contact educational institutions and demonstrate the virtues of traditional photography, to organise PR and so on... Well, I guess we have to wait for Ilford to do it. Unless someone can find someplace where there are loads of traditional photography users who have not only the skills and ability but the motivation to actually try doing something positive themselves. Anyone know a place like that?

Bob Carnie · Sep 20, 2007

My company is a end user of Ilford product offerings and I can say that Winet *distributer* in the US is a very competent and easy company to deal with.
I see it as the responsiblity of end vendors/retailers to establish a good working relationship with Winet *this includes a responsible accounting structure* and as time moves on we will see more product on the shelves.
I have absolutely no problem getting any Harmon Product in a crunch and with great professionalism.
I do not see this as Harmons problem, they have already signed on a amazing company in the US to handle their product line, and from a heavy user viewpoint I see no lag time in getting any and all of their products.
I think that each retailer in your market should be making the phone calls to start stocking their shelves.

Discpad said:
Dear Simon:

Did it occur to you that maybe, just maybe, your whole distribution strategy for here in the United States needs to be radically changed, to follow the "supply chain management" (SCM) that thousands of mid-sized companies use, to "hit above their weight?"

As I see it, your fine company got so tied up in the changeover (or more accurately, product expansion) from film to film + inkjet, that you forgot to "mind the store" and adapt your (U.S.) distribution model to changing best SCM practices.

As you see it from your vantage point in England, you have the U.K. market and the "export" market, which to you is "the rest of the world." However, the distribution model for, say, Turkey or Greece will be different than, say, Japan.

But: The differences between the United States and "the rest of the world," from a supply chain management standpoint, are staggering. It is this very SCM (logistics) boat you are missing here on this side of the Pond. By going to an SCM model, you'll actually make it easier, faster, and less expensive to put your fine products in the hands of retailers, photo labs, imaging shops, and darkrooms.

If you will be at the big PhotoPlus Expo in NYC next month, I'd like to sit down with you with a pen & paper to `splain this better.

Captain_joe6 · Sep 20, 2007

Ilford,

You have my sword!

Best,
Patrick

Uncle Bill · Sep 20, 2007

Ilford has my business, I hope this campaign goes world wide.

Richard Harris · Sep 20, 2007

Ilford could start by making their website work, try getting past the digital paper and assorted gumpf to traditional silver, not easy. And while I'm having a moan, how about pdf data sheets giving the true speed of Ilford papers and their heel and toe sensitivity etc. Just look at the data Kodak used to make available. As a Cestrian I have much admiration for the Mobberly crew, but they could try a little harder. At Focus last year members of the stand team were honest enough to admit that support for traditional darkroom users was playing second fiddle to digital products.

Erik Hartmann · Sep 20, 2007

What about Denmark ..... A little nice kingdom, easy to manage.....

erik...

Drew B. · Sep 20, 2007

I wonder if its ok to copy/release this to all the local art schools/colleges in my region? (along with a copy of Kodak's film use survey)

Jon Shiu · Sep 20, 2007

Richard Harris said:
Ilford could start by making their website work, try getting past the digital paper and assorted gumpf to traditional silver, not easy. And while I'm having a moan, how about pdf data sheets giving the true speed of Ilford papers and their heel and toe sensitivity etc. Just look at the data Kodak used to make available. As a Cestrian I have much admiration for the Mobberly crew, but they could try a little harder. At Focus last year members of the stand team were honest enough to admit that support for traditional darkroom users was playing second fiddle to digital products.

Hi, I think you are looking at the wrong website.

Try:
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/home.asp

Jon

jd callow · Sep 20, 2007

Richard Harris said:
Ilford could start by making their website work, try getting past the digital paper and assorted gumpf to traditional silver, not easy. And while I'm having a moan, how about pdf data sheets giving the true speed of Ilford papers and their heel and toe sensitivity etc. Just look at the data Kodak used to make available. As a Cestrian I have much admiration for the Mobberly crew, but they could try a little harder. At Focus last year members of the stand team were honest enough to admit that support for traditional darkroom users was playing second fiddle to digital products.

Richard would you have them forsake their future just so your preferences are at top? It appears to me that, within its capacity and with regard to its future, Ilford Harmon is doing all it can to maintain its traditional base (see OP) and expand into growing markets.

It really is a sad statement that every opportunity, no matter how unrelated, is seized to pummel Ilford, Kodak and or any other company supporting traditional photography.

If you don't like their website go to it and make suggestions. If you question their basic business practices, start a new thread or better still see if you can buy into the company and use your share ownership as a channel to offer your expertise.

This post started life as an announcement of a UK initiative by Ilford Harmon to spread the good news about owning and using a Darkroom.

Good for you ilford!

Uncle Bill · Sep 20, 2007

To defend Ilford, I find their website reasonably easy to navigate. Amoungst other things, I write content for websites and I have seen some pretty awful ones out there.

ricksplace · Sep 20, 2007

Go Ilford, Go!

Ira Rush · Sep 20, 2007

Ilford....

Thank you, thank you, thank you !

Ilford: Defend the Darkroom

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