Ilford Cooltone fibre - looking warm

Sim2 · Aug 9, 2015

Dear all, wonder if I can trouble the colective mind with a query?

I have been printing with Ilford Cooltone fibre paper recently and it is coming out decidely warmtone... not what I am looking for! Comparing these with a print from last year I can see a definate warm/yellow look, last years prints were claen and cool. More noticable in the white/bright areas of the print and borders.

I have been checking my chems etc, fresh developer, fresh stop, two bath fix, selenium tone followed by hca and wash. Fresh chems don't seem to make a difference to the tone, checked for safelight/light leaks, nothing noticable. *confused*

This is the same paper as last year - it wouldn't go off in a year surely? My wash water is very hard - could that affect anything? Is there brighteners that can be washed out leading to a warmtone? Don't think the prints are in water for an excessive time.

Any thoughts, all comments welcomed!

Sim2.

pentaxuser · Aug 9, 2015

I'll have to risk appearing to be provocative here but based on everything you have said I'd be forced to conclude that the CT paper has changed and isn't as cool as it was.

If this is nonsense and it would seem to be then the only other conclusion is that something about your processing has changed. What it might be I have no idea. Can you review your process to see if there is anything you have overlooked?

It sounds as if you haven't used what is the same batch of paper for many months. A few days ago or even as late as today you resumed its use and noticed this large difference. The chemicals, temp, time etc used for processing are identical to what had been used when the CT was much cooler. Is this the case?

pentaxuser

pentaxuser

Bruce Osgood · Aug 9, 2015

I don't see what developer you are using. Deveiopers do play a part in the regime. A warm/neutral developer will not make a cold tone print.

Sim2 · Aug 9, 2015

Thanks for the replies.
Same paper batch as last year, but a year older... started using again about two weekends ago with this issue ever since
Same developer formula, PQ formula mixed from raw 3 min
Same stop-bath, 30sec
Same alkali fixer (silverprint) - only difference 2bath regime today, 6 min each bath
Same selenium dilution 1:20, can't be guaranteed as I replenish 5-6min
Same HCA, 5 min
Wash, 25 min running, around 2hr static in fresh before hanging.

Tray table and safelight have moved but tried a paper fog test and could not see any outline of scissors laid on paper for up to 15 mins. Trays shielded from direct light from safelight.

<edit> Thought it might be incomplete fixing before the selenium but test strips not toned exhibit same warmtone. Tried a stupid short fix (2min) to compare toner stain, this looks different.

I normally print with Ilford Warmtone fibre but have loved the difference with cooltone last year.To be honest, this is looking really like a weaker warmtone paper :-( at the moment.
*perplexed*

RobC · Aug 9, 2015

paper will go off and exhibit what you are seeing. Not normally in 12 months but if gets too hot in storage or is older than you think, then it does happen.

Buying some new fresh paper will soon tell you if thats the case cos it should be much brighter.

just as a test take some of the old stuff, no exposure and no dev and fix it. How is its colour ?

Sim2 · Aug 9, 2015

Paper stored in constant blacked out darkroom, temp not constant but not extremes( - in a habited house not shed etc)
chems from last year, formula at (concentrated stock solution): http://www.lostlabours.co.uk/photography/formulae/developers/devID62.htm
fixer as tub supplied by Silverprint (london)
no rinse between fix and selenium.

RobC · Aug 9, 2015

Also box label should have a batch number on it. Put first two digits into following to tell you when it was made.

http://www.palomarkovic.net/mobile/BatchNumberDecoder/

Sim2 · Aug 9, 2015

I am thinking that the paper has "gone off" - shame as it can only be around 18 months old. Haven't been able to rpint much with it over the last year and have over half a 100 box left. :-(
Think that a apck of 25 might be in order as I am running out of routes to go down with this.
Will try the no exposure/no dev test.

Sim2 · Aug 9, 2015

batch date of 09 2013.

RobC · Aug 9, 2015

Two years old then. Also storing paper in darkroom is not good idea since everytime you do a print session you have chemicals flying around in the air which can and will attack any papers you have in there. Toning can be especially bad for this but it does depend on how sensitive any particular paper type is to airborne chemicals.

Sim2 · Aug 9, 2015

Yep, not old by my reckoning. No toning in the darkroom, I use a seperate area. Storing paper out of the darkroom...hmm, that might not work!
thanks for all the considerations - more anwers welcomed!

RobC · Aug 9, 2015

Sim2 said:
Yep, not old by my reckoning. No toning in the darkroom, I use a seperate area. Storing paper out of the darkroom...hmm, that might not work!
thanks for all the considerations - more anwers welcomed!

I meant you only take the box of paper in the darkroom when you are going to be using that paper during that particular print session. Otherwise store it outside the darkroom.

Simon R Galley · Aug 10, 2015

Dear Sim2,

Firstly, I have checked the QC database, we have no outstanding QC issues on any MULTIGRADE FB COOLTONE product for any issue.

COOLTONE has not 'changed' and it does not change in 12 months or 24 months if stored correctly, mono paper should not really be stored in a darkroom environment, but in saying that it should still be absolutely fine.

I'll be honest... reading through my thoughts were 'chemical' issues, especially with 'self' mix chemical but that would be patronizing and wrong, my suggestion is to return the product to HARMAN technology Limited at Mobberley, marked for the attention of Technical Service and we will check it out for you.

I am very sorry you have experienced a problem with a HARMAN manufactured product.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

Kevin Caulfield · Aug 10, 2015

Nice response, Simon. It's great to see that you follow up issues like this.

Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk

Sim2 · Aug 10, 2015

Simon R Galley said:
Dear Sim2,

Firstly, I have checked the QC database, we have no outstanding QC issues on any MULTIGRADE FB COOLTONE product for any issue.

COOLTONE has not 'changed' and it does not change in 12 months or 24 months if stored correctly, mono paper should not really be stored in a darkroom environment, but in saying that it should still be absolutely fine.

I'll be honest... reading through my thoughts were 'chemical' issues, especially with 'self' mix chemical but that would be patronizing and wrong, my suggestion is to return the product to HARMAN technology Limited at Mobberley, marked for the attention of Technical Service and we will check it out for you.

I am very sorry you have experienced a problem with a HARMAN manufactured product.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

Simon,

I appreciate your consideration of the issues. If I was in your position I would be thinking about the chems and it may well be, though all of the chems used have been remixed fresh and some have been made up from the raw again, with the same end result. That is not to discount the possibility of the chems.

Your willingness to look into this matter is to be applauded and great interaction with the community. I will pop some sheets in the post - knew there was a reason for keeping the emptied plastic black bags!

Sim2.

Xmas · Aug 10, 2015

Sim2 said:
Dear all, wonder if I can trouble the colective mind with a query?

I have been printing with Ilford Cooltone fibre paper recently and it is coming out decidely warmtone... not what I am looking for! Comparing these with a print from last year I can see a definate warm/yellow look, last years prints were claen and cool. More noticable in the white/bright areas of the print and borders.

I have been checking my chems etc, fresh developer, fresh stop, two bath fix, selenium tone followed by hca and wash. Fresh chems don't seem to make a difference to the tone, checked for safelight/light leaks, nothing noticable. *confused*

This is the same paper as last year - it wouldn't go off in a year surely? My wash water is very hard - could that affect anything? Is there brighteners that can be washed out leading to a warmtone? Don't think the prints are in water for an excessive time.

Any thoughts, all comments welcomed!

Sim2.

Warm toning turns the black bits chocolate not the white bits.
Compare the back of the paper with the highlights at the front.
Sterling silver tarnished in industrial atmospheres nice brown patina.

grahamp · Aug 11, 2015

If the warm tone is in the white border and the highlights, and not the developed shadows, it is likely from the toning stage. Insufficient fixing of the print before selenium can cause this effect.

Ilford Cooltone fibre - looking warm

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