Ilford Bromophen 5L Stock

[Filmic1]

I'm a research technician, so as practice, this is a FAUX PAS...... however

I bought the two package/part set of Ilford Bromophen to make 5L stock. Water has to be 50ºC for Part A

This Falcon Chem carboy I have comes shy of 5L and that's almost overflowing. I'm guessing this is a 4L carboy. Missing 20ml to bring to actual 5L strength as per instructions.

Those in the know. Is missing this 20cc of solvent going to compromise the final working concentration?

I'm retired so I don't have lab access any longer and certainly don't have a fume hood. Thanks!!

(Yes, I tossed that old Ilford paper developer.)

 

[pentaxuser]

As it has to be diluted further at 1+3 before use then I'd have thought that making it into 4,980 cc instead of 5L would make so little difference as to be inconsequential All you will have is a developer that is very marginally stronger than was intended

pentaxuser

 

[koraks]

Is missing this 20cc of solvent going to compromise the final working concentration?

Nope.

don't have a fume hood

You really don't need one for this.

 

[MattKing]

To be clear, do I understand you to be saying that all the powder is mixed in, but you are just short of the suggested volume of the water used to mix it into the stock solution?
Your use of "solvent" is what made me wonder - I would have probably used just "water" .
Assuming my understanding is correct, as posted above you have nothing to worry about.
And you really don't need to use extreme methods to use and make up commercially available powdered photo chemicals. A reasonably well ventilated room and normal care are fine.

 

[Filmic1]

To be clear, do I understand you to be saying that all the powder is mixed in, but you are just short of the suggested volume of the water used to mix it into the stock solution?
Your use of "solvent" is what made me wonder - I would have probably used just "water" .
Assuming my understanding is correct, as posted above you have nothing to worry about.
And you really don't need to use extreme methods to use and make up commercially available powdered photo chemicals. A reasonably well ventilated room and normal care are fine.

Thanks, for all the responses.

Working in labs makes one twitchy when it comes to making solutions. Especially the stuff I've been exposed to. Ta!

 

[MattKing]

Thanks, for all the responses.

Working in labs makes one twitchy when it comes to making solutions. Especially the stuff I've been exposed to. Ta!

Understood.
But it is appropriate to also understand that one of the design requirements for the main suppliers of small volume photo chemicals is that the product be easily and safely handled by people who lack the resources and experience of lab employees.

 

[Filmic1]

Understood.
But it is appropriate to also understand that one of the design requirements for the main suppliers of small volume photo chemicals is that the product be easily and safely handled by people who lack the resources and experience of lab employees.

Good point!

Yeah, I just snipped off one end corner of the envelopes so the powder had less of a chance of aerosoling on pouring.

Finished and negligible spillage. Thanks for the great feedback.

 

[MattKing]

With some envelopes, you can follow the snip by immersing that corner into water which allows the water to enter the envelope to start the mixing process, and then pour the resulting slurry into your mixing container. And you can then further rinse the envelope with more water.

 

[Filmic1]

With some envelopes, you can follow the snip by immersing that corner into water which allows the water to enter the envelope to start the mixing process, and then pour the resulting slurry into your mixing container. And you can then further rinse the envelope with more water.

Great idea!

I rinsed the empty envelopes out with water. The corner cut made that safe. I noticed how the powder slurried, as little left as there was.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

With some envelopes, you can follow the snip by immersing that corner into water which allows the water to enter the envelope to start the mixing process, and then pour the resulting slurry into your mixing container. And you can then further rinse the envelope with more water.

I used this dust-free method for mixing packaged chemicals for years. Works great on just about any packaging and really keeps down the dust. Nowadays I'm mixing everything from scratch and have to be more dust-conscious, use ventilation and wear a mask.

Best,

Doremus

 

[Filmic1]

My first crack at using Bromophen 3 water +1part stock... apologies for confusion. just to make contact sheets. It seemed to turn tea coloured rather quickly. I left it in the tray overnight, covered, and tonight, it had turned brown. It's certainly developing my Ilfospeed Pearl paper, old, and my Kodabromide paper (very old) at 10 sec and had to stop the lens down to f11 and still don't get any separation. Ilford says it's good in the tray for 24hrs. But temperature control is difficult. Developer is sitting in the tray at 22/23º. (paper is timed at 2 min in the developer.)

Hand held, no flash for the other image that looks toned, Lighting is incandescent in the bathroom.

 

[MattKing]

My first crack at using Bromophen 3+1 just to make contact sheets. It seemed to turn tea coloured rather quickly. I left it in the tray overnight, covered, and tonight, it had turned brown. It's certainly developing my Ilfospeed Pearl paper, old, and my Kodabromide paper (very old) at 10 sec and had to stop the lens down to f11 and still don't get any separation. Ilford says it's good in the tray for 24hrs. But temperature control is difficult. Developer is sitting in the tray at 22/23º. (paper is timed at 2 min in the developer.)

If that is 3 parts stock and one part water, that is very strong!
If it is 3 parts water and one part stock, that is fairly normal.

 

[Filmic1]

If that is 3 parts stock and one part water, that is very strong!
If it is 3 parts water and one part stock, that is fairly normal.

@MattKing 3 pts water, 1pt stock. There was precip at that bottom of the Fix container, so I tossed it, made fresh developer as well. I'm seeing some doing contacts with 2sec swatches up to 10 or 12 secs total.

 

[MARTIE]

I use Bromophen, it works out very well for me in my 16x20" Nova vertical processor. I keep the stock in 1 liter dark brown glass bottles with air tight caps filled to the brim. 4 liters of chemistry fits perfectly into the slot.
As you've discovered, paper developers oxidise very rapidly in open trays. I switched to Bromophen as I find it keeps better than most under comparable conditions.

 

[Filmic1]

I use Bromophen, it works out very well for me in my 16x20" Nova vertical processor. I keep the stock in 1 liter dark brown glass bottles with air tight caps filled to the brim. 4 liters of chemistry fits perfectly into the slot.
As you've discovered, paper developers oxidise very rapidly in open trays. I switched to Bromophen as I find it keeps better than most under comparable conditions.

Thanks a lot, @MARTIE. I was reading that Bromophen's longevity is mitigated in a processor. I haven't been printing in forty years. So, tons to learn. It was weird standing in front of an enlarger again. Especially in that tight space with my 8x10 trays at my left elbow! Gotta takes things slow.

 

[pentaxuser]

My first crack at using Bromophen 3 water +1part stock... apologies for confusion. just to make contact sheets. It seemed to turn tea coloured rather quickly. I left it in the tray overnight, covered, and tonight, it had turned brown. It's certainly developing my Ilfospeed Pearl paper, old, and my Kodabromide paper (very old) at 10 sec and had to stop the lens down to f11 and still don't get any separation. Ilford says it's good in the tray for 24hrs. But temperature control is difficult. Developer is sitting in the tray at 22/23º. (paper is timed at 2 min in the developer.)

I am a little confused. Does the middle picture represent the colour of the contact print i.e. it went sepia coloured and did this change back to the normal colour?

So the Bromophen went tea coloured in a matter of hours and then brown within 24 hours but is still working and producing normal coloured prints?

I ask because I have never used Bromophen but have a packet at home which has been yet to mixed

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Filmic1]

I am a little confused. Does the middle picture represent the colour of the contact print i.e. it went sepia coloured and did this change back to the normal colour?

So the Bromophen went tea coloured in a matter of hours and then brown within 24 hours but is still working and producing normal coloured prints?

I ask because I have never used Bromophen but have a packet at home which has been yet to mixed

Thanks

pentaxuser

@pentaxuser

Yes, the Bromophen went light tea coloured first evening. Then, after sitting for eighteen hours, covered, it went very dark tea coloured, but still developed the Ilfospeed 2.4 Medium 2.44M, Pearl, paper. Kodabromide went totally black. Papers are very old, 20-25 yrs.

I used flash on my Canon G10 for the two that look like b+w. Hand held, no flash for the other image that looks toned. Lighting is incandescent in the bathroom.

 

[Ian Grant]

20ml short of 5 litres is approx a 0.4%,variation, which is insignificant. The chances are the measure you used is not even that accurate.

Ian

 

[pentaxuser]

@pentaxuser

Yes, the Bromophen went light tea coloured first evening. Then, after sitting for eighteen hours, covered, it went very dark tea coloured, but still developed the Ilfospeed 2.4 Medium 2.44M, Pearl, paper. Kodabromide went totally black. Papers are very old, 20-25 yrs.

I used flash on my Canon G10 for the two that look like b+w. Hand held, no flash for the other image that looks toned. Lighting is incandescent in the bathroom.

Thanks It was the toned look that puzzles me I don't think I have seen anyone else mention this effect on a darkroom print and certainly not one that disappears when using flash

pentaxuser

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Your developer will last longer if you don't store it in a tray between sessions. If you can pour it into an appropriately-sized bottle and cap it well, it will take longer to oxidize. If you do cover it, I'd suggest floating plastic wrap right on top of the liquid to minimize contact with the air.

FWIW, I use home-mixed ID-62, which is very similar to Bromophen. I can get two or three 4-5 hour sessions from a two-liter batch of working solution (I'm using two liters in a 12x16 tray).

Best,

Doremus

 

[Filmic1]

20ml short of 5 litres is approx a 0.4%,variation, which is insignificant. The chances are the measure you used is not even that accurate.

Ian

@Ian Grant, in this situation, most certainly right. I'm using Peterson plastic graduates, and the Kodak beakers.

 

[Ian Grant]

Your developer will last longer if you don't store it in a tray between sessions. If you can pour it into an appropriately-sized bottle and cap it well, it will take longer to oxidize. If you do cover it, I'd suggest floating plastic wrap right on top of the liquid to minimize contact with the air.

FWIW, I use home-mixed ID-62, which is very similar to Bromophen. I can get two or three 4-5 hour sessions from a two-liter batch of working solution (I'm using two liters in a 12x16 tray).

Best,

Doremus

Ilford reformulated ID--20 a Universal MQ developer in the mid 1950s as ID-20PQ, replacing the Metol with Phenidone. The advantages were greater shelf and tray life. However there were complaints of colour/warmth shifts, this was due to Bromide build up with the greater capacity, in a MQ developer similar increased Bromide build up inhibits the Metol.

So Ilford reformulated ID-20PQ as ID-62 halving the Bromide and adding Benzotriazole, preventing the colour/tone shifts. ID-62 was never marketed, instead Ilford went a step further, and it was reformulated with Potassium instead of Sodium Carbonate, and a small addition of Hydroxide, and sold as PQ Universal, a 2.5X liquid concentrate, compared to ID-62. PQ Universal has since changed slightly.

Ian

 

[Filmic1]

Ilford reformulated ID--20 a Universal MQ developer in the mid 1950s as ID-20PQ, replacing the Metol with Phenidone. The advantages were greater shelf and tray life. However there were complaints of colour/warmth shifts, this was due to Bromide build up with the greater capacity, in a MQ developer similar increased Bromide build up inhibits the Metol.

So Ilford reformulated ID-20PQ as ID-62 halving the Bromide and adding Benzotriazole, preventing the colour/tone shifts. ID-62 was never marketed, instead Ilford went a step further, and it was reformulated with Potassium instead of Sodium Carbonate, and a small addition of Hydroxide, and sold as PQ Universal, a 2.5X liquid concentrate, compared to ID-62. PQ Universal has since changed slightly.

Ian

Ian Grant , Doremus Scudder

Thanks, and thanks "all" for the great skinny!