Ilford Art 300 staining

gail nelson · Apr 23, 2016

I'm new to APUG, it took me awhile but finally figured out how to post!

So my question is regarding Ilford Art 300 and it's problem with staining. Does anyone have any suggestions to stop this problem? It doesn't happen all of the time but when it does it's a brownish/yellowish stain usually around the edges of 11 x 14's, but the other day I had an 8 x 10 with stains right in the middle of the back of the paper and of course they showed through to the front. This is so frustrating as they don't show up until the print has dried. I've read that other people have had problems with this but nothing really concrete on how to prevent it. I emailed Ilford but they never got back to me. I'm using all Ilford chemicals mixed correctly and timed according to the fact sheet. Is it a problem with stop, fix or wash a combination of all three? Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

darkosaric · Apr 23, 2016

welcome to APUG. please explain in details how do you wash the prints.

gail nelson · Apr 23, 2016

darkosaric said:
welcome to APUG. please explain in details how do you wash the prints.

gail nelson · Apr 23, 2016

I do my work in professional set up darkroom. The water is fresh city water that goes into a large tray from a nozzle that is attached to the tray and keeps fresh water going into the tray and keeps it swirling around. I wash for about 30 min. Maybe the problem is if I am washing to many prints at one time? Like I said it doesn't happen all of the time.

Ian Grant · Apr 23, 2016

Are you using a single fixing bath, that's the usual cause of stains if the silver level has risen too high. Two bath fixing eliminates the problem as long as the 2nd bath is reasonably fresh.

Ian

MattKing · Apr 23, 2016

By the way, this thread is probably best placed in the B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry sub-forum: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

This sub-forum is for feedback and suggestions about the site's operation.

Your thread will most likely be moved, but don't worry, you will get the hang of it .

It would serve you well to research the tests for complete fixing and complete washing.

One other thing to watch with Ilford Art 300 - it has a greater tendency to float than other papers. So you need to take steps to ensure it remains submerged through the wash process.

JBrunner · Apr 23, 2016

Thread moved. Welcome gail. Glad to have you here.

Loren Sattler · Apr 23, 2016

I have had the same issue recently with Ilford Multigrade Classic fiber paper.

I use the two fixer tray technique, 1-2 minutes in each tray, then to a water bath tray until finished printing. Next I treat prints in a bath of sodium sulfite (2 tablespoons of SS mixed in 1 Qt of water) for 3-5 minutes with occasional agitation, then wash in Patterson archival washer for 45-60 minutes with a small flow of city water. Fixer is Ilford Rapid mixed 4 oz to 28 oz water. Developer is LPD, stop is Kodak Indicator.

I will have no issues with four prints, then one with small brown spots or a large stain yellowish brown in color. Will send scans when computer comes back from service.

JW PHOTO · Apr 23, 2016

Do you happen to selenium tone your prints? If so, make sure your wash times are on the long side. Also, be sure your fixer is not exhausted and your fixing time long enough.

pentaxuser · Apr 23, 2016

Is this stain seen immediately after washing and before drying or immediately after drying or if neither applies then how long before the stains appear?

What percentage of times does staining appear and are you saying that your process never varies? I feel we need to be able to drill down to causes and to do this more information is required.

Thanks

pentaxuser

piu58 · Apr 24, 2016

A stain at the edges may come form too old paper / too long developing time. A stain in the middle of the back is always a processing failure. I had such effects in my younger days (I am quite old now), when I developed some sheets together, stopped it together and moved it together in a too small fix dish. When paper glued together I got yellowish, brownish or purple maculae.

K-G · Apr 24, 2016

silveror0 said:
Make sure the prints are kept separated in the wash tray, so that BOTH and back sides get washed - a hassle with too many prints in the tray. Is there no archival washer in the "professional setup darkroom"?

+1

Karl-Gustaf

gail nelson · Apr 24, 2016

K-G said:
+1

Karl-Gustaf

There are two archival washers, but water pressure isn't up to par so the tray is the only option. This is a darkroom that is setup in the back of photo store, it's been around for years. Years ago it used be so crowed with people printing. I am the only person that consistently prints there now so there aren't a lot of steps in the upkeep of this "poor old darkroom"!

gail nelson · Apr 24, 2016

Ian Grant said:
Are you using a single fixing bath, that's the usual cause of stains if the silver level has risen too high. Two bath fixing eliminates the problem as long as the 2nd bath is reasonably fresh.

Ian

Thank you, I will try two step fix next time.

Doremus Scudder · Apr 25, 2016

silveror0 said:
Gail, in case you're not familiar with the details of the two bath fixer method, here is a cut/paste of the method taken from an Ilford instruction sheet:
Two bath fixing
An extremely efficient method of fixing film or paper is to use the two bath fixing technique. Make up two separate fixing baths of the same solution volume. Fix the film or paper in the first bath for half the recommended fixing time and then transfer them to the second bath for the remainder of the time. Continue to work this way until the capacity of the first bath is reached, then discard it and replace it with the second fixer bath. Prepare and use a completely fresh second bath. Repeat this process as required with the result that the film or paper is always thoroughly fixed by the relatively fresh fixer in the second bath.

The data sheet for your chosen fixer should specify its capacity in terms of number of prints per unit volume of working solution, e.g., 8x10 prints / gal. So you'll need to keep track of this.

... and please note that the capacity is throughput for the volume of the first bath only, not the total volume of both baths.

FWIW, staining like you describe is almost always a processing problem. Read up on fixing and washing and apply best practice and you should solve your problem quickly.

Doremus

gail nelson · Apr 25, 2016

Doremus Scudder said:
... and please note that the capacity is throughput for the volume of the first bath only, not the total volume of both baths.

FWIW, staining like you describe is almost always a processing problem. Read up on fixing and washing and apply best practice and you should solve your problem quickly.

Doremus

gail nelson · Apr 25, 2016

Thank you to everyone for their helpful ideas. I have a feeling the problem is probably with the wash, (I usually make up fresh fix every time), and since this paper has a tendency to "float", and I get busy and kind of ignore the wash tray that my stained prints are probably the result of that especially if there a number of prints in the wash tray. Unfortunately the darkroom I work in does have two archival washers but aren't used due to water pressure. The owner of the photo store where this darkroom is located doesn't want to put any money/effort into the darkroom being that no one really uses it anymore except for me. Before digital took over, there would always be many people working in the darkroom, sometimes so many that we had to share trays. I now have the place to myself which is great, but since the darkroom is no longer making money since I'm the only one that uses it (other than students from the local colleges now and then), the equipment kind of gets ignored. So, I'll have to deal with a wash tray instead of the archival washers that are just sitting there! Also, since I am the only consistent user, for the last few years the owner has threatened to close darkroom area and use the space for a larger studio. So I really do appreciate that I do have place to go print even if it's not "up to par".

Ilford Art 300 staining

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