ilford 500 heads

[mitch brown]

merry xmas all
i am hopeing someone can answer this question. i have 2 ilford 500 300wat head , but the plug that connect them to the power unit is different by one connector, one is a flat pin the other is a round pin the book i have is for the round pin head and it states the round pin is a ground. i an wondering if one i am useing breake ( it is the round pin ) if i could just swap the end connectors and then use the other head. thanks
mitch

 

[gorbas]

Hi Mitch, On my Ilford 500 head connector is with 8 flat pins.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26983280@N00/5293537297/
G

 

[George Nova Scotia]

Mine has the connector with all flat pins, it uses 2 150 lamps for a total of 300 watts. The parts manual I downloaded a while ago shows the connector with the round pin, it also shows the lamps as 300 watts each. As best I can tell there were two version of the 500. If I read your message correctly you are using the 600 watt head and power supply but the head is broken and you want to use the other head likely is the 300w version. Changing the plug might be okay in this case although I'm not sure I'd want to put the 300w lamps in the 2 x 150 head. I think I've seen mention that the 600w head has a couple extra parts for heat shielding.

What is wrong with current head, any chance it could be fixed?

George

 

[Tom Kershaw]

I have two MG500 systems, one head utilises all-flat pins and the other has one round pin. I'll try and track down the photos.

Tom

 

[gorbas]

Hi Mitch & George,
With Ilford 500 Head you can use ether two 150W ESD or two 300W ELH lamps. Only important thing is that both lams are the same type.
When we are on topic of connectors, did anybody try to make some kind of adapter to use common "non ilford" (like Gralab) footswitch with mini male plug to some kind of the connector to Ilford Control unit.
Connector used by the Ilford on this products are like from NASA or Military hardware catalog?? Also placement of the connectors on the Power supply unit is rather strange??
G

 

[mitch brown]

both heads work and both use ether 150 or 300 watt bulbs. i just want to make sure that i can get the spare head to work with my power supply if one breaks. btw i just got a rh designs 500 analyser and it s great. as they say spot on.
mitch

Hi Mitch, On my Ilford 500 head connector is with 8 flat pins.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26983280@N00/5293537297/
G

 

[paul ewins]

8 flat pins is the earlier 300W version while 7 flat and one round is for the later 600w version. They had completely different controllers, but those do appear to be plug compatible. I am guessing that the change to the power supply plug was to prevent people plugging 600w heads into 300w power supplies. If you want to do it the other way around it should be fine.

The earlier version with 500C controller

the later version with 500CPM controller (note that the socket on the power supply is labelled "Enlarger max 600w")

the early version of the 500H head

hope that helps,
Paul

 

[gorbas]

Paul, older Ilford Head 400 was only working with 2x150W bulbs, ILFORD Head 500 takes both - 2x150W or 2x300W!!!
But I think you did answer to OP. One of his heads is made to be working with 500C controller/power supply and other with 500CPM.
I'm using 500H with 500C and 500S

 

[paul ewins]

Yes, in my experience the older set-up does work happily with 300w globes but Ilford probably had to be more cautious in case something went wrong.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

My older spec MG500 system is explicitly rated @ 600W.

Tom

 

[mitch brown]

hi
contact rh designs i am sure they can tell you about where to get a connector.
mitch

 

[gorbas]

Anybody interested in swapping exposure probe for footswitch?? Does footswitch has other functions beside ON/OFF?? Like "focusing"?

 

[George Nova Scotia]

Anybody interested in swapping exposure probe for footswitch?? Does footswitch has other functions beside ON/OFF?? Like "focusing"?

No focusing function that I can see, it does let you use the burn function.

BTW the connector looks like a four pin DIN, check local electronic suppliers or maybe even audio shops. Here is the reference but if you can just take the controller along to the store and they might be able to match it. They might not have the locking style but should be able to help. Here, on the other coast I'd go to RAE.

Dead Link Removed

 

[mitch brown]

thanks for all the info guy's does the fan turn off on the units you have ? mine run's all the time. is there a relay some where thas bad? any helpgreatly appreciated.
mitch

 

[gorbas]

Thank you for the link George!
G

 

[youngrichard]

thanks for all the info guy's does the fan turn off on the units you have ? mine run's all the time. is there a relay some where thas bad? any helpgreatly appreciated.
mitch

On mine the fan comes on when power supply is switched on, switches off after a while then runs periodically presumably under control of a heat sensor somewhere, as it doesn't run when lamps are switched off for a spell, but runs quite frequently during periods of activity ie lamps being switched on and off for focussing and exposing.
Richard

 

[Marco B]

Mine has the connector with all flat pins, it uses 2 150 lamps for a total of 300 watts. The parts manual I downloaded a while ago shows the connector with the round pin, it also shows the lamps as 300 watts each. As best I can tell there were two version of the 500.

Yes, there were a couple of different versions of the 500H, and not just the ones with the 500C and 500CPM controller. There also appears to have been a very early version of the 500C only really suitable for 2x150W lamps, not 2x300W. Like George states in the extract below, it misses the heat shields in the head, probably protecting the sides from the head of getting to hot to handle, and possible damage to the head itself. See the Ilford documentation about this that I attached as an image ("Change in lamp specification") and the serial numbers of the units involved.

Changing the plug might be okay in this case although I'm not sure I'd want to put the 300w lamps in the 2 x 150 head. I think I've seen mention that the 600w head has a couple extra parts for heat shielding.

What is wrong with current head, any chance it could be fixed?

George

Paul, older Ilford Head 400 was only working with 2x150W bulbs, ILFORD Head 500 takes both - 2x150W or 2x300W!!!

Again, see the attached documentation and image. Power supply may not be the biggest issue, as it seems Ilford underrated the unit in the beginning, to simply upgrade it by sticking another wattage on it when they made the changes to the head to allow for 2x300W lamps by adding the additional heat shielding...

Anyway, the attached image shows the 500H head with the heat shields (called heat baffle plates in the documentation):

 

[paul ewins]

I checked the earlier head and the plate on top has the serial number (5H12321) and specifically mentions using ESD (300w total) or ELH (600w total) globes. So now I have no good theory as to why the power supply plug changed.

 

[Marco B]

8 flat pins is the earlier 300W version while 7 flat and one round is for the later 600w version. They had completely different controllers, but those do appear to be plug compatible. I am guessing that the change to the power supply plug was to prevent people plugging 600w heads into 300w power supplies. If you want to do it the other way around it should be fine.

I checked the earlier head and the plate on top has the serial number (5H12321) and specifically mentions using ESD (300w total) or ELH (600w total) globes. So now I have no good theory as to why the power supply plug changed.

Hi Paul,

My 500H head also has a higher serial number (5H11965), than the Ilford documented change (all units above serial number 5H11471 adapted for 2x300W lamps). It has an flat 8 pin plug, no round pin... The head has the head baffle plates, as it should for carrying 300W lamps. It also mentions to only use 300W lamps on a sticker on the inside of the front panel of the head.

In addition, my 500S power supply, also with 8 flat pin connector, shows 400W as the maximum output on the back plate, yet connects up with the head fine, and has no problem coping with the extra load. I bought the unit second hand, however I am pretty sure no illegal modifications were made, and the unit came as it was delivered by Ilford.

I really think Ilford underrated the original 500S power supplies, and Ilford simply decided to modify the heads to allow for fitting 2x300W, while using the original stock of 400 Watt rated 500S power supplies fitted with the 8 flat pin connector until they ran out the production run, to only swap them out for the newer version afterwards.

In addition, the 7 flat, 1 round pin connectors, may be specific to the 500CPM controllers, as they function differently. If I remember it well (I don't have one), someone here on APUG mentioned the 500CPM controllers were specifically designed for split grade printing (0/5), while my 500C controller only has basic grade (0-5 in 1/2 grade increments) and time settings.

But correct me if I am wrong on this last point...

 

[mitch brown]

does anyone have the service information guide for the unit without the round connector in the plug that goes from the head to the power supply? i have it for the unit with the round pin in the plug.
thanks
mitch

 

[Marco B]

does anyone have the service information guide for the unit without the round connector in the plug that goes from the head to the power supply? i have it for the unit with the round pin in the plug.
thanks
mitch

Mitch,

What do you mean with "service manual"?

Ilford posted PDFs on their website of manuals and some technical stuff like circuit diagrams. However, unfortunately, the available MG500 Operating Manual is for the MG 500 unit with 500C controller, while the available MG500 Exposure System Service Manual is the newer MG500 unit type with the 500CPM controller.

If you are looking for the MG500 Exposure System Service Manual for a unit with the 500C controller with circuit diagrams for electronics repair, you are probably out of luck... :confused: I contacted Ilford directly about this, and they answered that they had nothing available, and all they had was available on their site...

The "next best" thing I can offer you, is to have a look at (there was a url link here which no longer exists), where I posted a scan of the 500C controllers electronics board, with the scanned circuit lines of the back of the board super-imposed in Photoshop, that gives some idea of how the unit is connected...

The electronics circuit diagram of the 500S power supply as displayed in the manual for the MG500 system with 500CPM controller, shows only minimal changes compared to the 500S units with 500C controller, so is still usable if you know how to read circuit diagrams and interpret real electronics.

Marco

 

[Marco B]

Edit to above post: I noticed the link to the PDF with scans of the electronics board of the 500C controller in (there was a url link here which no longer exists)is dead. It is a link to a file on my own homepage. I must have screwed something up. I will have a look at home (currently at a public library typing this) and see if I can restore it, so you can have a look.

Edit 2: Restored the file on my website, but I have now also added it as an attachment here.

 

[Katie]

I would love your exposure probe, if you don't want it. I don't have that or a footswitch.

 

[paul ewins]

Hi Paul,
In addition, the 7 flat, 1 round pin connectors, may be specific to the 500CPM controllers, as they function differently. If I remember it well (I don't have one), someone here on APUG mentioned the 500CPM controllers were specifically designed for split grade printing (0/5), while my 500C controller only has basic grade (0-5 in 1/2 grade increments) and time settings.

But correct me if I am wrong on this last point...

I can only speculate - and put up some more photos which may help people trying to identify controllers from fuzzy photos on eBay:

Note that while the 500CPM has a separate power cable both controllers have the same sort of plug on the end and will connect to either power supply.

 

[mitch brown]

hi marco
the manual with the diagrams is the service manual i have. so its for the newer unit with a cpm controler. i wanterd to compair the two as after takeing the two different plug heads off the color wires , even tho they use the same colors, are on different pins. thanks for all the links. i just have to hope someone has one.
mitch