Ilford 500 Bulb Blowing Blues

[Larry Kellogg]

Greetings my old friends. I've been going through a lot of family problems lately and so have decided to let go of all of my analog gear and get out of the game.

So, I found someone to take over my darkroom space. She bought my Durst 138 with Ilford 500 head setup. I have the head set up with an RH Designs 500 Analyzer timer with probe. I hadn't printed on my rig in perhaps six months, I don't know.

When I showed her the system, one bulb blew, so I replaced both of them with ELH 300watt bulbs. Everything was ok for a little bit, but she told me she blew both bulbs when she raised the head and put some strain on the cable.

Ok, since then, she has blown six bulbs! What in the world could be wrong with the machine? I never replaced a bulb in the years that I used the setup.

Could the contacts on the cable have been damaged? What should I look for?

Any help or suggestions would be most appreciated. I need to help her straighten this out, as well as buy her some bulbs.

Best,

Larry

 

[George Nova Scotia]

Was the enlarger moved? I'd take a good look at the cable for any pinch points, open up the connector for frayed wires. However shorts in the wiring might cause smoke if shorted. Check the lamp holder and the cooling tube if anything is touching the lamp it would shorten it life. Finger prints on the lamp don't help either. Next step would be checking voltages etc, do you have a meter & experience in that area? Schematics are available if you need them.

 

[AgX]

Was the enlarger moved? I'd take a good look at the cable for any pinch points, open up the connector for frayed wires. Check the lamp holder and the cooling tube if anything is touching the lamp it would shorten it life. Finger prints on the lamp don't help either.

Neither shorting of the wires nor fingerprints on the bulb would make the tungsten wire burn through prematurely.

(Only if a defect at a cable would lead to higher voltage at the lamp (from outside voltage source), then such could happen.)

 

[George Nova Scotia]

AgX I tend to agree, I may be wrong. Rereading the OP I think I took it as if just the blue lamp was blowing on second read I see that both blew. Looking at the schematics it's hard to see a way to get a higher voltage. So maybe bad bulbs or lack of cooling. I'm not sure how long the bulbs would last without a fan but I suspect they should last several minutes at least.

Larry, how long are the bulbs lasting? Are you sure they are blown, broken filament or checked with a meter? The later versions of the lamp house also have an interlock switch and an over temp switch that would cut both lamps.

It, s getting late here maybe better ideas tomorrow.

 

[Larry Kellogg]

AgX I tend to agree, I may be wrong. Rereading the OP I think I took it as if just the blue lamp was blowing on second read I see that both blew. Looking at the schematics it's hard to see a way to get a higher voltage. So maybe bad bulbs or lack of cooling. I'm not sure how long the bulbs would last without a fan but I suspect they should last several minutes at least.

Larry, how long are the bulbs lasting? Are you sure they are blown, broken filament or checked with a meter? The later versions of the lamp house also have an interlock switch and an over temp switch that would cut both lamps.

It, s getting late here maybe better ideas tomorrow.

Thanks everybody. I believe the lamp housing is one of the newer models with the interlock switch. I assume you mean that when you open the front door, the lamps cut out.

Somebody on the large format forum suggested oxidation in the lamp sockets as a way for the bulbs to get a higher voltage and be blown.

From what she tells me, the bulbs are not lasting long at all, she has gone through six bulbs since she bought the outfit from me just a few weeks ago, and I don't believe she has managed to get many prints made with it. I believe she's buying the WiKO ELH 300watt bulbs. I assume they're made in China. What bulbs do people use? Are there higher quality models? At this point, it seems like something is going on in the head or power supply, but I don't know what.

 

[Larry Kellogg]

I wouldn't spend a dime on a Chinese light bulb. Learned that in the printing business buying platemaker bulbs.

Ok, so, which bulb should I buy?

 

[Luis-F-S]

I believe she's buying the WiKO ELH 300watt bulbs. I assume they're made in China.

Larry if they're NOS Wiko they should be made in Japan, and should be good. About all I use in my DeVere 5108 are NOS Wiko or US made bulbs! If it's the sockets, you should be able to get QHV-1 Lamp Sockets from Replacementlightbulbs.com

 

[Larry Kellogg]

Larry if they're NOS Wiko they should be made in Japan, and should be good. About all I use in my DeVere 5108 are NOS Wiko or US made bulbs! If it's the sockets, you should be able to get QHV-1 Lamp Sockets from Replacementlightbulbs.com

The funny thing is that she showed me packaging that says EiKO! What is the difference between WiKO and EiKO? The package says: ELH 300 W 120 V GY5.3.
Thanks for that tip about the replacement light sockets!

 

[AgX]

Somebody on the large format forum suggested oxidation in the lamp sockets as a way for the bulbs to get a higher voltage and be blown.

Bad contact will heighten resistance and by that lowering voltage.

 

[Johnkpap]

I saw this exact issue a few weeks ago The ilford head owned buy my good friend Barry

I found the problem to be the bulb contacts in the head had corroded a bit causing High Resistance, the driver cct in the head was driving the bulbs too hard !!!

I cleaned the contacts and replaced the bulbs with Old Stock GE bulbs this was to be sure they were not made in China !!!

This fixed it

Johnkpap

 

[AgX]

How can higher than normal resistance in the fixture make an incandescant lamp blow??

 

[Johnkpap]

How can higher than normal resistance in the fixture make an incandescant lamp blow??

The high resistance caused by corrosion brakes down when a higher than normal power is applied.....then you have a higher than normal voltage across the bulb for a millisecond >>>> and POOF NO BULB

Basic electronics E= I/R formula can be used to explain a lot.

Johnkpap

 

[AgX]

-) why would there be a higher than normal "power"?

-) voltage must be significantly higher (far above 150%, likely at 200%) to blow a bulb instantaneously, and still were are not talking about a millisecond

 

[Prof_Pixel]

Larry,

You might want to read a manual.
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/201172015792221.pdf

Page 44, Symptom 6 says: Lamps blow frequently or light output is low - Incorrect program selected on control unit

 

[Larry Kellogg]

Larry,

You might want to read a manual.
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/201172015792221.pdf

Page 44, Symptom 6 says: Lamps blow frequently or light output is low - Incorrect program selected on control unit

Hmmm, what control unit? She is using the RH Designs Analyser 500 timer. I think she said it is happening right after focusing.

I'm going to try replacing the lamp sockets, they're cheap at $5 each. Thanks for the reference, Luis. I hope they're easy to replace. Have you done it? I also bought ten WiKO made in Japan bulbs.

I'll post results once I get the best parts.

 

[AgX]

Larry,

You might want to read a manual.
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/201172015792221.pdf

Page 44, Symptom 6 says: Lamps blow frequently or light output is low - Incorrect program selected on control unit

But just this point is not covered at the manual at all! ("H" and "HLZ" heads and respective program settings)

 

[gorbas]

The funny thing is that she showed me packaging that says EiKO! What is the difference between WiKO and EiKO? The package says: ELH 300 W 120 V GY5.3.
Thanks for that tip about the replacement light sockets!

This morning after seeing your post I went to check my box of spare bulbs. EiKO are the worst bulbs I ever used in my life. They blow like flies. Ones I used (different type than ELH) are made in Vietnam. Good brands are Sylvania, Osram, Ushio, GE... Anything but EiKO!

 

[Larry Kellogg]

This morning after seeing your post I went to check my box of spare bulbs. WiKO are the worst bulbs I ever used in my life. They blow like flies. Ones I used (different type than ELH) are made in Vietnam. Good brands are Sylvania, Osram, Ushio, GE... Anything but WiKO!

Sigh, now you tell me. I just ordered ten of them for $5 each. Have the Japanese manufacturers fallen down that far that their bulbs blow like flies? I think something else must be wrong.

 

[Leigh B]

What is the difference between WiKO and EiKO?

Nothing to a chinaman.

Roll an E over 90 degrees and it looks like a W.

- Leigh

 

[gorbas]

Sigh, now you tell me. I just ordered ten of them for $5 each. Have the Japanese manufacturers fallen down that far that their bulbs blow like flies? I think something else must be wrong.

At first I was very suspicious to bulbs but then you said Wiko, I checked my box and refreshed my memory that bad ones are Eiko. There are lots of ELH bulbs floating around. They were very popular in all kinds of color heads. After experiencing sudden death of so many Eiko bulbs I talked with my supplier and ask them for "better" brands, but they did not have any of bulb type I need. I think tungsten bulb manufacturing is not in vogue.

 

[gorbas]

Sorry Larry, my bad! Eiko are bad, Wiko are good bulbs. I think names are made similar just to create confusion as we just witnesed

 

[Larry Kellogg]

Sorry Larry, my bad! Eiko are bad, Wiko are good bulbs. I think names are made similar just to create confusion as we just witnesed

Thanks! Yes, I believe how EiKO is named is a dirty trick. The two bulbs that my friend blew by moving the head and stretching the cable were WiKOs. The bulbs she has blown since have all been EiKOs. Make of that what you will.

 

[darkroommike]

At first I was very suspicious to bulbs but then you said Wiko, I checked my box and refreshed my memory that bad ones are Eiko. There are lots of ELH bulbs floating around. They were very popular in all kinds of color heads. After experiencing sudden death of so many Eiko bulbs I talked with my supplier and ask them for "better" brands, but they did not have any of bulb type I need. I think tungsten bulb manufacturing is not in vogue.

ELH bulbs were also standard on a couple of generations of Kodak Carousel projectors.

 

[Luis-F-S]

If the ELH bulbs are too bright, she can use ENH bulbs instead. Those are 250 W instead of 300 W. I use 4 ENH bulbs in my DeVere 5108 so I end up with a 1000 W head instead of a 1200 W head. I've bought all by bulbs on the auction site, just now bought 8 more Wiko ENH bulbs for $4 ea. so some bargains can still be had!

 

[Ronald Moravec]

finger oil on bulb envelope. Handle with gloves only

China sells substandard look alikes