Ilfobrom Galeire, is it lithable?

laparn · Apr 2, 2009

Hi!

Might get an opportunity to buy a decent amount of Ilford Ilfobrom Galerie G2 Fb 12x16" sheets for a reasonable price but I´d like to justify it more than just for the good price.
I know there are a lot of "likers" out there but I pretty much do lith printing and not that much conventional and of that background I urge for info.

So, for the lith capability, is there any use buying the Galerie for lith printing? Will it lith? Anyboy tried it and know the characteristics? Lith easy? Lith neutral? Quick? Etc Etc?

I appreciate any recommendation that help me buy or decline.
Thanks!

edtbjon · Apr 2, 2009

In short, no.
Longer, while you can use different developers for Galerie, it does quite little to change the final result. Galerie in itself is a very good paper with very deep blacks and good Dmax. It is also very reliable. When it was introduced it was intended to be the best paper Ilford had to offer, something which is still valid if you're looking for a good single-graded paper. You can find out all there is to know about Galerie in a concurrent thread (except for lith ...).
But according to Tim R. it doesn't lith print well. I don't know about bleaching and redeveloping, but that is something which will help with almost every paper. (As Tim R. says it's not a good lith paper, I havn't tested it in lith, but given that I've done quite a lot of normal printing with Galerie, what Tim says makes sense. Galerie is a very "stable" paper which holds its rather cold tone no matter what. It reacts extremly little to various toners, a fact which also tells me that lith printing is out of the question.)

Så, skit i de...

//Björn

Rich Ullsmith · Apr 2, 2009

Yes, it does lith. I have no experience with G2, but assume the response would not be as dramatic as G3 or G4. And I agree that normal prints on Galerie respond slowly to gold and selenium, the lith print really grabs it up. (The sepia-gold combination, I don't know about.)

Galerie has a lot of silver and no developer in the emulsion. If you ever wonder if a particular paper is lithable, you can test with a drop of potassium hydroxide or Na OH (basically, your part B) on a test strip. Slow response or no response indicates absence of developers in the emulsion, and will lith.

laparn · Apr 2, 2009

Great! Thanks.

Wouldn´t ask for better info. Where else to find it...?

I´ve tried the B part exercise on other papers before but is not an option on un-buyed paper.

Lovely news really. I´ll most likely buy the sheets and process a test portfolio. Can one expect Bromofort/Bromide-like-paper-characteristics maybe? Kind of unique and colder effect on similar ones which can be very spectacular and catchy for suited negs.

Å döh, Bjöön, schluta tjöta schiiit. Här schka lith:as me Galerie. ;-)
Ha D!

/P

Travis Nunn · Apr 2, 2009

I've not tried Galerie and lith, but the general answer when someone asks "does it lith" is to try it and see how you like it. There are papers out there that some people love in lith that I hate. It might give you the results you're looking for. It would be worth buying a small pack of paper to do some testing.

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 2, 2009

Even if it doesn't work for lith printing, it's well worth the investment. I'm about to try some for myself after seeing some stunning results with it.

Jag tror ockso att det nog ar bast o skita i det...

- Thomas

Colin Corneau · Apr 2, 2009

The cosmos must be lining up, Thomas...I just ordered some Grade 3 paper to try! Have never used it before, and am really looking forward to it.

edtbjon · Apr 3, 2009

Well, it's good news that Galerie actually reacts to lith printing. Apart from that it have always been one of my favourites, even though some odd papers have come and gone in the meantime. During those 20 odd years, in which a number of other makes and brands have gone past, Galerie have always been just about the same, i.e. a very good high quality paper.

Sorry, but I just have to tell him.
Jag är själv göteborgare av födsel och ohejdad vana, så jag vill bara påpeka att i ordet "tjôta" ska det vara ett circumflex över o'et å inte vanliga sketna prickar, så de så.

//Björn (med vanliga djävla prickar då rå...)

palec · Apr 6, 2009

I have tried few months ago Galerie G2, but it does not lith in LP-Superlith. So should I assume that only G2 is not lithable and G3 is?

Rich Ullsmith · Apr 7, 2009

Drop a test strip of your G2 in the pan, with the lights on and see what happens. Every paper is different in how it responds with different concentrations, bromide levels, semiquinone levels, temp, exposure, etc. The G3 and G4 lith, so I can't imagine the G2 would not.

palec · Jun 4, 2009

Rich, I took your advice and placed Galerie G2, G4 and Adox Fine Print Vario Classic to tray with lights on. Only the Adox went black. Both G2 and G4 have subtle change to light grey. I assume the Gallery in it's latest incarnation does not lith (at least not in LP-Superlith).

Rich Ullsmith · Jun 4, 2009

I don't have an explanation for you there.

Andrew Moxom · Jun 4, 2009

I am not convinced that Galerie liths. The fact of Palec's test would appear to prove that. It may not have developers in the paper, and it maybe silver rich, but does it have a supercoating? Some papers do and if this does (I'm assuming it does) then it will not lith unless it's bleached away. That said, Tim R also states in his book that Ilford WT does not lith very well until it's bleached back. There is no mention of trying Galerie that way. So it may require some testing to be sure, but I have not seen any images posted that would back up that Galerie liths well.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jun 4, 2009

Actually, Ilford MGWT liths beautifully. Try it, but tone it afterward. As far as I understand, it's the main paper Bob Carnie uses for lith printing. But then again, he likes to bring on the toners too.

Just fyi.

It is also my impression that Ilford Galerie doesn't lith well, but why not try it? If it works - bonus! If not - well, you lost a piece of paper and 20 minutes out of your life. Small price for finding out for yourself.

If you do decide to bleach back and re-develop in lith, Ilford MGWT works really well, not sure if Galerie works that way or not. Use copper sulfate bleach on a print that's 1/2 stop overexposed in the enlarger and developed normally. Bleach it back until only a faint ghost image of the print remains. Then re-develop the print in a weak but hot (85-90*F) lith solution. You can do this in full room light. Snatch the print when it looks good.
Toners do not look the same when you do this, but can be rewarding.
If you let the print stay in the second developer too long, it'll come back to look almost identical to what it looked like after the first developer.

- Thomas

palec · Jun 5, 2009

I use MGWT with LP-Superlith without bleaching and I like the results. It's very fine grained and has no pepper fogging problems.
I've read somewhere that the formulation of Galerie has been changed, maybe that's why some have good experience while I can't get it working (in various dillutions and times).

Bob Carnie · Jun 5, 2009

I think why some think Ilford Warmtone does not lith is because the *explosion * happens in the fix and not in the developer.
The print needs to be pulled when a hint of black emergence is happening, which takes a few prints to get a basic handle of.
Thomas is right , it is and has always been one of my favorite lith paper and does accept the toner really well.

For Murals it is fantastic, but I have to say the Slavich 4 , which Guillumme intorduced to me is great for murals as well.

PVia · Jun 5, 2009

Bob, looking forward to trying this paper again with your suggestion.

Just printed a nice lith series on Bergger VCCB. I'm not toning these, just a dip in Sistan; the colors are already wonderful! I'll post a link when I get them up...

Bob Carnie · Jun 6, 2009

Nova lith 1:8 plus old dev :should pull around 3-4min, I use a very strong bulb on my enlarger :Omega Condensor no filter 250 watt bulb... Exposure time is usually around 15 secs - 60 sec depending on neg, with apeture 2 stops from wide open, glass carrier.
The print goes very flat, and then the blacks start creeping in . When I see a definate black starting to show its ugly head I pull the print... Acid stop*critical to be fast... Rapid fix and watch the fireworks.

Print will be green/yellow which in itself for certain images is very nice.
accepts bleach sepia really well, touch of gold and then selenium or iron blue and the possibilities are endless.
I would really like to find a toner that will enhance the green yellow look but not one of those dye toners that wash out.

have fun , works really well.

PVia said:
Bob, looking forward to trying this paper again with your suggestion.

Just printed a nice lith series on Bergger VCCB. I'm not toning these, just a dip in Sistan; the colors are already wonderful! I'll post a link when I get them up...

Ilfobrom Galeire, is it lithable?

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