IF THIS SITE WENT AWAY....

copake_ham · Apr 9, 2007

How vital is APUG to preserving film photography?

I spend a lot of time here because it connects me to my "filmster philosophy" of photography. I find "comfort" here because I know that at least within this cuccoon I do not have to deal with the d****** world.

But is this place a stronghold or just a last hurrah?

Are we getting anywhere - or are we just getting stale?

donbga · Apr 9, 2007

copake_ham said:
How vital is APUG to preserving film photography?

Are we getting anywhere - or are we just getting stale?

I don't think that APUG members will have very much influence on the preservation of film. There aren't enough members here purchasing the quantity of film (and paper) to make a big difference.

Enjoy film while it lasts, which I think it will for a while. Unfortunately it will continue to get more expensive every year and most likely choices for film and paper will gradually shrink.

Personally I think people spend too much time on line and not enough time in their darkroom or exposing film.

What did you do today regarding film photography?

Me? I processed 8 sheets of film.

Gary892 · Apr 10, 2007

donbga said:
I don't think that APUG members will have very much influence on the preservation of film. There aren't enough members here purchasing the quantity of film (and paper) to make a big difference.

I totaly agree. I have been finishing up my taxes and my total expenses on photography related items, including film and paper was approx. $2,000.00 U.S.
If every member here spent that same amount in 2006 that still is not enough to persuade companies to keep supplying materials. I relaize, if my math is correct, that the total is approx. $4,000,000.00 and that is no small amount of change.
If you divide that by the number of suppliers then that amount of revenue rapidly decreases per supplier.

I will continue to do all I can to support film as long as I can squeeze it out of my pocket book.

Gary

David H. Bebbington · Apr 10, 2007

copake_ham said:
But is this place a stronghold or just a last hurrah?

Are we getting anywhere - or are we just getting stale?

To judge by newbies' comments, they are often often happy to discover APUG as a resource which takes the place today of the metaphorical *guy next door" from whom most people learned photography in the days of yore. I personally feel that the contraction of the analog material market has pretty much run its course, but I could be wrong. One worrying long-term factor is that analog materials users tend to focus on high levels of craft skills rather than outstanding artistic expression or originality!

Sean · Apr 10, 2007

analog materials users tend to focus on high levels of craft skills rather than outstanding artistic expression or originality!

Not really, I think it's just anyone these days who mentions "craft" is automatically singled out as only caring about "craft". It is a method of attack that has become all too familiar not just in photography but any art form that digital methods have encroached upon. "This guy is talking about hand carving instead of laser carving, the guy obviously only cares about craft", "Look at that guy talking about canvas and paint, hello! get a digitablet,, these people I tell ya are all the same, all they care about is the craft side" etc etc.
The reality is artists can actually care about craft and art at the same exact time, and find it very rewarding..

Alex Bishop-Thorpe · Apr 10, 2007

I survived without APUG for a long time when I'd started photography. I learnt the basics from my mum and to a lesser extent, my photography teacher (mothers know everything), so I don't see APUG as the last stronghold of analogue, just more of a place for people to meet and coordinate their efforts and share their interest. People get interested when they find our you're using film.
If this site went away, I'd keep taking photos, but miss the resource and encouragement it provides.

eclarke · Apr 10, 2007

Gary892 said:
I totaly agree. I have been finishing up my taxes and my total expenses on photography related items, including film and paper was approx. $2,000.00 U.S.
If every member here spent that same amount in 2006 that still is not enough to persuade companies to keep supplying materials. I relaize, if my math is correct, that the total is approx. $4,000,000.00 and that is no small amount of change.
If you divide that by the number of suppliers then that amount of revenue rapidly decreases per supplier.

I will continue to do all I can to support film as long as I can squeeze it out of my pocket book.

Gary

And $4 million might be one day of Kodak's film coating capacity..let alone other film manufacturers...EC

jgjbowen · Apr 10, 2007

The original math is off by a factor of 10. $2000 x 20,000 members is $40,000,000. Still a drop in the bucket for Kodak. I'm also sure that I can't be the only Apug member that spent more than $2,000 last year on film, paper and chemicals.....just don't tell the Mrs.

film_guy · Apr 10, 2007

I've been doing photography (film and digital) for the past 5 to 6 years, and only signed on on APUG a few months ago. Being able to talk analog photography with a group of APUGers just make analog photography more fun. Even without APUG, I'll continue to shoot 35mm film. I will continue to support the film industry as long as I'm able to, and hope to introduce the joys of analog photography to my future kids and grand kids.

Ed Sukach · Apr 10, 2007

Stronghold.

reellis67 · Apr 10, 2007

Fleath said:
If this site went away, I'd keep taking photos, but miss the resource and encouragement it provides.

Agreed. I also feel, as Ed stated, that APUG is a stronghold, not a last hurrah...

- Randy

Síle · Apr 10, 2007

A drop..

I've been lurking about here for a while, reading voraciously, if a little more subdued on posting, however this particular post caught my eye..

Last Sunday I went out with my daughters to take some photo's with a dslr a 35mm and a TLR. One held on firmly to the D*****l, clicking merrily at anything that moved, the other insisted on using the Autocord, taking her time to get it "just right" .. now, at 12, she's hooked. We came home and I proudly handed over an old Ricohflex that she is bursting to get out and use.. Oh dear.. I might just have to take her out..

The information, knowledge and wealth of experience here in apug is invaluable to me, and I believe many many more..
It may well be just a drop, but many drops will someday make a river..

I'm with the Stronghold..

David A. Goldfarb · Apr 10, 2007

Interesting piece yesterday by Oren Grad on the new Ebony Whole Plate camera on Mike Johnston's blog--

http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.com/2007/04/more-about-ebony-sv-wholeplate_09.html

Of particular relevance to this thread is the last section on the role of the internet in making it happen. APUG is a piece in that puzzle.

Daniel_OB · Apr 10, 2007

It is logical to me to find higher percentage of dig shooters on internet, for it is their natural space. However for photographers darkroom is more natural place than internet, so just a small percentige of photographers are on internet. if one go to Leica site, which is digital site, one can find posts and viewing here and there, go to Nikonians.org digital site too and one will find just a fraction of posts we have here, go to photo.net and one will find that all the time the same guys mumbling against themself how digital is good and after a while he came back to photography. I found here 60000 viewing on just one single post, as portrait of yor darkroom.
I think, as I said so many times, photography is by no means in any trouble. Only freaken manufacturers and dealers lift dust for their profit is going down, rising pressure to photographers. One out next in, that is how it works with manufacturers. As long as there are guys to buy films there will be guys to make films. Photography has its very specific features not found in any other medium, so it is very enough not to worry.
As I can see the only way photography will go in future is upward, and who can tell me, with facts, opposite.

www.Leica-R.com

gr82bart · Apr 10, 2007

I know there are far more film users out there that haven't even signed on to APUG or even know about it. When I joined the local camera club last year (yeah, yeah, yeah, I joined a camera club - now back off!) I found out that there were several people who still shot film and loved it. None had any type of high speed internet access! Maybe the technology luddite label has some truth?

Somedays I think it's a stronghold, some days I think it needs the paddles.

Regards, Art.

MattKing · Apr 10, 2007

I think of it more as a porthole - if you took it away, it would be harder to keep in touch and see what is happening.

In some fundamental ways it helps replace the local photo store of yore.

The internet and digital have reduced the opportunities for direct and hands-on contact, but increased greatly the opportunity for world wide communication. Sites like APUG make the new paradigm* much more palatable, and do offer some opportunity to mobilize opinion.

Matt

* my apologies for using the cliche "paradigm", but I do think that this is an example where it is appropriate

Chuck_P · Apr 10, 2007

I think a stronghold as well. Ilford's representative Simon Galley on APUG indicates, to me, a stronghold, not a last hurrah. Would be nice to have someone from Kodak and others too, though.

Chuck

Dan Fromm · Apr 10, 2007

APUG is unique among the photography bulletin boards I visit only in its exclusion of discussions about digital photography. IMO the best of the lot is the french LF board, which seems to me to be at a higher technical, intellectual, and, um, literary level than any of the others. By the way, although the French discuss digital and all that, the board doesn't host photos. Neither does www. graflex.org. IMO, photo hosting is a costly disaster.

I'm sure that using APUG pleases many of the people who post here, and perhaps the lurkers too. With no data on which to base an opinion, I have no well-founded opinion about whether APUG's existence increases the use of film. My gut, which is often wrong but will speak with no data at all, says that APUG has no effect on film sales or the number of people who shoot film.

Rob_5419 · Apr 10, 2007

I'm sure that using APUG pleases many of the people who post here, and perhaps the lurkers too. With no data on which to base an opinion, I have no well-founded opinion about whether APUG's existence increases the use of film. My gut, which is often wrong but will speak with no data at all, says that APUG has no effect on film sales or the number of people who shoot film.

Inclined to take the same view as Dan although nowhere nearing the number of posts Dan has made, and reading the posts here I wonder if there is a correlation between the no. of posts made by a poster, and their agreement to state that this is a stronghold?

Insofar as we are discussing APUG that is. It takes a certain personality type to want to post and post on a forum, and this forum is not representative of photography users. It is probably representative of photography users who find the internet forum a useful site though.

Not so sure if the poster's question applies in the case with other forums such as the Large Format Photography Forum. There has been a huge foray of interactional feedback from camera manufacturers and forum users, pledging to support one another (e.g. Fotoman's project & whole-plate film holders). Another notable exception is the presence of Simon Galley as a representative for Ilford Harmon on this site. However trawling back on all of the laudatory statements made in response to the Ultra-large format film offer by Ilford, and finding the grim reality that all of the positive comments amounted to...less than Ilford's minimum orders does make me blink a little at the mass effect on this forum.

Christopher Walrath · Apr 10, 2007

I dunno but I suggested linking together to let film manufacturers know that we are still out here. Tough sales would be indicative of our existence. I love the site but without it I would get a great deal more done.

(no, honey, uh, the , mower's broke. that's it)

jstraw · Apr 10, 2007

from this article:

http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.com/2007/04/more-about-ebony-sv-wholeplate_09.html

"At the same time, the Internet makes small-scale specialty commerce more viable by making it much easier for manufacturers like Ebony and Lotus and independent craftsmen like Richard Ritter to find interested buyers and to recognize and aggregate demand that would otherwise be invisible."

Mike Té · Apr 11, 2007

APUG is Sealand....

APUG is Sealand; we live in the Fringes.

I, too, have six toes on each foot.... but my true mutation is my TLR.

gr82bart · Apr 11, 2007

If APUG went away, I'd eat less popcorn.

Regards, Art.

Gary Holliday · Apr 11, 2007

I'd drink less beer.

Apug for me is a stronghold. I think I'd be going hybrid by now if it weren't for the purists bashing folk on the forum. I'm glad that I'm staying with the darkroom.

It's also an inspiration looking through the gallery and finding photographers with the same vision as myself.

As for dwindling sales, who could have thought that vinyl would return?

Mike Té · Apr 12, 2007

What? No classic sci-fi geeks here?

tmike said:
APUG is Sealand; we live in the Fringes.

I, too, have six toes on each foot.... but my true mutation is my TLR.

IF THIS SITE WENT AWAY....

copake_ham

donbga

Gary892

David H. Bebbington

Sean

Admin

Alex Bishop-Thorpe

eclarke

jgjbowen

film_guy

Ed Sukach

reellis67

Síle

David A. Goldfarb

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Daniel_OB

gr82bart

MattKing

Moderator

Chuck_P

Dan Fromm

Rob_5419

Christopher Walrath

jstraw

Mike Té

gr82bart

Gary Holliday

Mike Té

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