If Kodak Made A 'Warm' Version Of Ektachrome 100, Would You Try It?

armadsen · Jul 11, 2024

DREW WILEY said:
Using a warming filter does will not turn Ektachrome into Provia or Velvia - those have their own look. The current Ektachrome is actually better neutral balanced. The best balanced chrome film of all was the now extinct Fuji Astia series. Many folks shooting chrome film these days go ape anyway, disgustingly hyper-saturating it in PS afterwards. What's the point?

No, of course not, Provia and Velvia are their own thing. It's just that one of the reasons I prefer Provia to Ektachrome is that I don't have to filter it to get colors that I like. I know the argument that Ektachrome is actually more color accurate. But I don't care if it's more accurate if the photos I get look bad to me, because I take photos for my own enjoyment. And the crazy blue cast you get if you so much as think about shade while shooting Ektachrome turns me off. I quite like the results I get from Ektachrome through an 812 filter (speaking generally, I don't always use one). Not as much as I like Provia, but it's still a film I shoot when I can't get Provia.

So, a warmer variant would be nice. I wouldn't want it to replace the current E100, especially because I know other photographers would prefer that one. But more options are always a good thing.

I've never been and would never try to be a pro photographer. I do it purely for fun. My day job involves serious digital image processing and analysis. I implement algorithms used for color adjustment and grading in video editing software for a living. The itch for technically perfect results is well scratched at my day job. One of the reasons I shoot film is for a break from all that kind of thing.

Fatih Ayoglu · Jul 11, 2024

ChrisGalway said:
I agree, ISO 200 would be great! It's dark here in Ireland, forget the Sunny 16 rule! I find myself pushing Provai 100f one stop quite regularly.

Definitely, I was in Dublin yesterday and the day before, so much fog and clouds. Kept using a light meter

DF · Jul 11, 2024

Anon Ymous said:
It would be interesting, but at 29€ a pop, I'm not exactly hell bent on trying it.

I hear 'yah - and Velvia is even much more$$ than that.
Color Chrome photogging isn't cheap anymore.

DF · Jul 11, 2024

Samu said:
I would immediately try any new slide film. Instead of "warm" film, I would like to see a slide film with higher ISO rating than 100. There is a long fall with cloudy skies in this part of Europe. At the moment, there is only one slide film readily available in the marker - Kodak E100 (and 5429. its motion picture version). What are the plans of Fuji in slide film market, is unclear. E-6 film is of course a niche market compared to color negatives, but there is still demand for these films.

I've contacted several upper-tier level emplyees at Fuji through Linkedin & e-mails in the past month to discuss concerns we shooters of Velvia have - reguarding it's inconsistent availability at camera stores, as well as overall lack of info as to what's going on - "does fuji even care about film these days"...etc,
and,
NOT ONE RESPONSE!!

benveniste · Jul 11, 2024

Not until I use up the Velveeta 100 in my freezer.

braxus · Jul 13, 2024

I'd love it if they rerelease 100GX film. I prefered it over the 100G. Now all you can do is use warming filters. I forget what that is- an 80A?

George Mann · Jul 13, 2024

braxus said:
I'd love it if they rerelease 100GX film. I prefered it over the 100G. Now all you can do is use warming filters. I forget what that is- an 80A?

81A, a weak filter.

Ben Hutcherson · Jul 14, 2024

I generally preferred E100GX back in the day. Part of it was a bit of selection bias, though-my local camera store said it was VERY slow to move compared to E1000G so I'd periodically get to load up on E100GX out of the short dated/expired box(they would usually cycle things there about a month before expiration).

I still have a few boxes of 220 E100GX that come out occasionally...

With that said, an 81A usually gets E100/E100G looking a lot like E100GX, so that's good enough for me. I have several "Moose Polarizers" that are really handy for this.

NortheastPhotographic · Jul 16, 2024

armadsen said:
Because it's annoying to have to put a filter on every lens I want to shoot with. And filters are really expensive for medium and large format photography ($335 for a Tiffen 812 in 4"x5.65"). Also, while the current Ektachrome is sold as a cine stock, it originally came out as a still-only stock. No reason a warm version couldn't be sold for stills only use.

I'd guess the chances of Kodak making something like this go up slightly when/if Provia and Velvia are discontinued.

You have that backwards. Eastman Kodak developed Ektachrome and announced it in Super 8, 16mm, and 35mm for still cameras. It's obvious to me that it's cine based because it's so low contrast and neutral relative to even Provia. They wanted reversal films for their small format cine cameras primarily. I don't think they thought that the stills market was clamoring for a 35mm only, super expensive color film. The very last formats to get it were sheets and 120. DPs on Euphoria had to specifically request that they make it in 35mm cine lengths for that production, and it ended up being a hit. Double edged sword for them because now so many players buy 1000 foot lengths and sell it for much cheaper than Alaris wants to. *cough* who would do thaaaaat? *cough*

As another commenter said, there is nothing stopping you from using a screw in 81A and there are decades of decent condition 2nd hand ones out there.

Honestly for large format, there ain't no more Cibachrome. If you're shooting E100 and you want to display it there is very likely a scan happening. Just like the DPs do in grading, you can color correct it there too. I leave my warming skylight on my 35/2 Biogon at all times, even when I'm shooting negative films.

MattKing · Jul 16, 2024

The following is from a few years ago, and from an absolutely reliable and fully informed source:
At the time of Ektachrome's re-introduction, it was Kodak Alaris and the still film people who were most keen on bringing back Ektachrome, but the only thing that made it possible was that Motion Picture also supported it - primarily because of a desire to fill a perceived need in Super 8.
Between the time that Ektachrome was discontinued and when it was decided to bring it back, a number of sources for constituent components ceased production of those components, so the film itself had to be rebuilt. Rather than make more or less a replica of the old version, Eastman Kodak took the opportunity to incorporate some small improvements - to whit:
"to make the film a wee bit sharper, have more stability in keeping, and ... improve cold store keeping of the emulsions. ... adjusted the film’s sensitometric position so that the whites were whiter, and the colors more accurate. Coating additional layers and adjusting the layer structures for water & gel levels, and adjusting components to insure same sensitometry isn’t easy"

Prest_400 · Jul 17, 2024

NortheastPhotographic said:
Why not just use a filter? It's a cine stock after all and I assume that Big K assumes its DP target market is filtering basically everything they shoot to some degree. I use a KR-1.5 on my lenses (warm skylight) pretty much all the time.

My opinion as a handheld shooter is that having to compensate for a (heavier) filter is a disadvantage, specially it it takes half to a stop of light.
The 2nd hand filter tip is good, and agree. I was happy to find the B+W KR1.5 and now it lives permanently as a protecting filter. Also procured a nice Hoya HD polarizer with high transmission that just robs a stop, but I have yet to test it out; again using a RF it's a bit more cumbersome.

Samu said:
I would immediately try any new slide film. Instead of "warm" film, I would like to see a slide film with higher ISO rating than 100. There is a long fall with cloudy skies in this part of Europe. At the moment, there is only one slide film readily available in the marker - Kodak E100 (and 5429. its motion picture version). What are the plans of Fuji in slide film market, is unclear. E-6 film is of course a niche market compared to color negatives, but there is still demand for these films.

Yeah the plans for Fuji overall, aside of Instax, are unclear. That they are so-so mostly out of even C41 is not a good sign, given that color neg should have the highest turnover. They probably has the same challenges as the new E100, that any film requires reformulation due to component changes and with the all-in Instax situation they are just not bothering.
A decade ago I could just have a taste of Provia 400X. If Kodak were to release a high speed Ektachrome, E400 would be really nice. And again, modern E6 grain is very very tight.

koraks · Jul 17, 2024

DF said:
NOT ONE RESPONSE!!

Of course not. I wouldn't have expected anyone to respond to this tactic. Not at Fuji, not anywhere else.

BrianShaw · Jul 17, 2024

George Mann said:
81A, a weak filter.

There are also 81B and 81C (and possibly another) in the 81 series light balancing filters for stronger filtration.

George Mann · Jul 17, 2024

BrianShaw said:
There are also 81B and 81C (and possibly another) in the 81 series light balancing filters for stronger filtration.

I prefer the pink ones over these rather brown filters. But combining these two at just the right densities may make for the perfect filter.

johnsb2 · Jul 23, 2024

If we're dreaming, I'd vote for bringing E200 back; a higher speed option would be nice to have. I'd love to have VS back though, I was definitely in the minority that preferred it to Velvia in the more saturated category.

ChrisGalway · Jul 25, 2024

johnsb2 said:
If we're dreaming, I'd vote for bringing E200 back; a higher speed option would be nice to have. I'd love to have VS back though, I was definitely in the minority that preferred it to Velvia in the more saturated category.

Yes, either Iso200 or iso400 would be a really useful addition.

George Mann · Jul 25, 2024

DREW WILEY said:
You lose a little bit of sharpness with sandwich-style Tiffen filters. You can get a similar tonal shift by stacking an amber 81A and 1B pinkish Skylight.

OK. So revisting this comment, I wonder if using a quality 81A plus 1A will give me a better balance (balanced saturation) than a KR1.5 without sacrificing sharpness?

DREW WILEY · Jul 25, 2024

Skylight filters like 1B are very slightly pinkish or magenta, depending. The 81-series is amber (minus blue);
they're not brown! The Euro KR1.5, KR3, etc, series is more red-amber. UV filters can be either multicoated colorless or a very faint amber. Sing-Ray has an interesting but expensive filter which is in between an 81A and a pink skylight filter; I find it particularly useful for color neg film rather than chromes, but if you wanted a little more warming to Ektachrome than a KR1.5 provides, without going excessive, it would be worth considering.

Tiffen filters in general affect sharpness a little due to their uncoated thermoplastic/glass triple-layer construction. Just a few of them are so-so single coated. But threading together a couple of multicoated glass filters would have only minimal impact on sharpness. The easier answer is to simply lay out the money for something appropriate by Sing-Ray. I have what they used to label as a "KN" filter; perhaps that's what they describe as a Hi-Lux warming filter today - you'd have to call them to confirm that.

George Mann · Jul 25, 2024

DREW WILEY said:
Skylight filters like 1B are very slightly pinkish or magenta, depending. The 81-series is amber (minus blue);
they're not brown! The Euro KR1.5, KR3, etc, series is more red-amber. UV filters can be either multicoated colorless or a very faint amber. Sing-Ray has an interesting but expensive filter which is in between an 81A and a pink skylight filter; I find it particularly useful for color neg film rather than chromes, but if you wanted a little more warming to Ektachrome than a KR1.5 provides, without going excessive, it would be worth considering.

So where does this leave the Tiffen 812, and which single filter is the closest (and how does it differ)?

DREW WILEY · Jul 25, 2024

The 812 is a sledgehammer approach. It's a unique filter almost flesh-tone, stronger than an 81A, and more like a somewhat reddened 81B. The 812 is potentially useful for taming blue shadows in direct sun under deep blue skies, especially for Caucasian portraiture. But that's a scenario typical color neg films like Portra are a lot better at, even unfiltered.

The point is, outdoor lighting is never a constant. No single filter does it all. And it also depends on your subject matter, personal taste, and anticipated usage of the image.

George Mann · Jul 25, 2024

DREW WILEY said:
The 812 is a sledgehammer approach. It's a unique filter almost flesh-tone, stronger than an 81A, and more like a somewhat reddened 81B. The 812 is potentially useful for taming blue shadows in direct sun under deep blue skies, especially for Caucasian portraiture. But that's a scenario typical color neg films like Portra are a lot better at, even unfiltered.

The point is, outdoor lighting is never a constant. No single filter does it all. And it also depends on your subject matter, personal taste, and anticipated usage of the image.

So it sounds like my hunch about combining an 81A with a Skylight 1A may pay off.

Scott J. · Aug 9, 2024

George Mann said:
So it sounds like my hunch about combining an 81A with a Skylight 1A may pay off.

I've been using a KR1.5 filter for E100, which I decided on after comparing the effect produced by various skylight, KR, and 81-series filters when looking at developed E100 film on a light table. The KR1.5 gave what I thought was the most pleasing correction. The caveat is that the effect the filter has on the film at the time of exposure is a little different than the effect it shows on a light table, but it's close enough.

Cokin now markets a filter that they call an 81Z, which I've never tried but have been curious about for E100. On paper, it appears to have more warming effect than an 81A, but the color is akin to a salmon color, sort of intermediate between the pink of a skylight filter and the amber-brown of a conventional 81-series filter. It's Cokin, so it's only available in square sizes.

DREW WILEY · Aug 9, 2024

A very high quality glass filter in between the slight pink of a 1B skylight and the amber of an 81A, in effect "salmon", would be the Singh Ray Hi-lux Warming filter. Expensive. These were originally marketed as the KN filter for Kodachrome and color negative correction. Stronger correction than a KR1.5.

DF · Aug 14, 2024

I believe if there was a 'warm' Ektachrome, like in the not-too-distant-past EGX 9(ESW before that),
it could very well RIVAL Velvia 50.

DREW WILEY · Aug 14, 2024

The problem with Velvia in general is its very limited contrast reproduction range. I found it useful for soft contrast scenes in mist or falling snow etc where I actually needed a boost. And in that case I preferred Velvia 100F because it was on stable polyester base rather than triacetate. I do have an early Fuji 50D Cibachrome print on the wall behind me.

If Kodak Made A 'Warm' Version Of Ektachrome 100, Would You Try It?

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If Kodak Made A 'Warm' Version Of Ektachrome 100, Would You Try It?

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