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ID'ing Negatives to Specific Holders

I think the whole thing is, "I see," said the blind man to his deaf wife as he handed her the hammer and saw.
 

If I couldn't see the notch at all, according to my way of exposing, I'd have underexposed the negative. Typically, there is a slight density; it may be very slight. Of course, many of my lenses are uncoated, and I prefer single coating to multiple anyway, so maybe if I spent more money on optics this system wouldn't work so well.
 
Vaughn said:
I think the whole thing is, "I see," said the blind man to his deaf wife as he handed her the hammer and saw.
Click to expand...

Almost!
... as he picked up his hammer and saw and went to work merrily.
 
How about (didn't someone - Sinar? - offer things like this?) cutting out a recess, making strips of lith film containing copyright notice and holder number, and fitting those in the recess?

Still needs to be exposed, so will not show up sometimes.
 
I'll chime in here too, after reading the method in Way Beyond Monochrome (Thanks Ralph).

My system is essentially the same, but I don't like deciphering the binary code. I use a small set of different shaped files to make notches that can be read as Roman numerals.

My system is as follows: a small, semicircular notch is "1," a v-shaped notch is "5," a square notch is "10," an inverted L-shaped notch (i.e., a shallow broad slot with a longer "tail" added by a knife file) is "50," and a larger semicircle is "100."

To reduce the total number of notches needed for any given holder, use the Roman numeral convention of representing numbers just before a symbol change with the next higher symbol preceded by the smaller, e.g. "9" is represented as IX, 40 as XL, etc. In my system, holder #49 would be, reading from right-to-left on the flap (so that the notches appear left-to-right on the film when viewed through the base side): one small square notch (X), one inverted L-shaped notch (L), one small semicircle (I), and one more square (X) to make XLIX (sorry, I can't give you a real graphic representation of the notches, but you get the idea).

Yes, there are times when all or some of the notches are in deep shadow and do not appear, but most of the time they are easily identifiable. Knowing which of a number of identical scenes has the extra exposure or the different filter is easy to tell if you keep good notes in the field. It is also really helpful in finding which holder has the light leak, and if the leak is consistent or not. I keep a list of all the tiny light leaks by holder number; if a holder shows up more than a couple of times, it's time to replace it (or repair if possible).

If you do decide to do this, make sure to scrape the burrs off the filed notches and clean the holders extra-thoroughly to remove and filings. Plastic holders can be a bit of a pain to work with, but, for me, the ease of identification later is well worth it.

Best,

Doremus Scudder
 

Vaughn

If you print the entire negative, which I like, why not make the notches your trademark? Hasselblad did!
 

Doremus

Either way works fine, but remember that the steel ruler, used to cut the notches, is also used to read the binary code. It's really quite simple, nothing to decipher, more like reading it. And if you want, do it once, and write the arabic numeral directly on the negative border with an acid-free pen.
 
RalphLambrecht said:
Vaughn

If you print the entire negative, which I like, why not make the notches your trademark? Hasselblad did!
Click to expand...

Nah...I'll let the images do that...
 
I'm with Ralph - the Binary System is (to me) so straight forward

A combination of 8 notches (I do big & small rather than notch & no notch) can deal with up to 127 double dark slides.

I only have 12 darkslides - so 4 notches is enough for me and I can expand it to 15 Darkslides without having to add a fifth notch

Martin
 
What my actual method is -- I number each holder 1a/b, 2a/b, etc. In my field notes I draw a rough sketch of what I photograph along with the holder number, meter readings, film, lens, et al. Then using the drawing, I match up the neg with the data, then transfer the data onto the 4-fold paper negative envelope for that neg along development data and printing record (date printed and process). This eliminates my need to mark the actual neg in any way.

Vaughn
 
A holder with no notches is uniquely different from any holder with 1 upto 4 notches.

Now just consider what your aim is: identify holders, or start counting at 1.
(Why "start" counting? That seems a little odd. The thingies are just identification marks. Not indicators of a particular order, right? )

So with upto 4 notches, you too can identify 16 holders.
 
This is another example:

http://www.doerzmanphoto.com/film_holders.html

I did this with my 4x5 holders using a dremel tool with different diameter drum shaped cutters. I can't remember if I used sand paper type or something more robust. I experimented with a junk film holder first (highly recommended regardless how you decide to start cutting). I used a larger diameter for 10's, medium for 5's, and tiny for 1's. That way the numbers are still base 10 and intuitive. The notches are a little sloppier than with an X-acto knife but work fine. I was worried about dust also but I used compressed air to blow out the holder, then a bristle brush, then compressed air again and had no issues. I did this outside the darkroom. I still used a small file to smooth out some of the margins. Using a Dremel goes much faster if you have a lot to do. I think I did 25 holders or 50 frames. That is some tedious work with an X-acto knife - maybe a few hundred separate cuts so the Dremel is a good cheat.
 

That will work too. It doesn't really matter what coding is used, as long as it gets it on the negative automatically, avoiding recording labor and potential transcript errors.

I chose the binary system, because it uses a minimum of notches. You never need more than 6 notches to mark up to 64 holders. The 10,5,1 system works just fine, but it requires up to 10 notches to do the same. That's almost double the notches, labor and modification to the flap. Also, the more notches, the more likely one of them will be hidden in deep shadow area. Readability is not much of an issue with any system, once you've gotten used to it.

By the way, I cut the notches with a sharp knife, so, there is no dust. I also clean my holders prior to reloading them with film. Dust or debris has never been an issue. If you are worried about damaging the holders, cut the notches as small as possible. They don't have to be as large as mine. A tiny notch will do. The position, not the size of the notch is important.
 
I use the "Roman Numeral" system described earlier in the article. I use a small round power-saw file for the "U", a small triangular file for the "V" and a fine metal cutting blade for the "I". Works just fine.
 
johnnywalker said:
I use the "Roman Numeral" system described earlier in the article. I use a small round power-saw file for the "U", a small triangular file for the "V" and a fine metal cutting blade for the "I". Works just fine.
Click to expand...

What is 'U'? Do you mean 'X'?

If I'm correct, your system uses up to 7 notches and is limited to 39 holders?

Not bad! It's more efficient than the 10-5-1 system.
 
Since I started this one, I thought I should come back for a wrap-up. I marked the holders using "V" notches using the binary code method. Seems to have worked great. I did twelve holders. I shot three of them the other day down around the Huron River in Delhi.

I now see what is meant by the fact that some times exposure in the area of the notches make it difficult to identify the notches. Either close examination (looking for remnants of the notches) or a process of elimination seems to cover that though. Thanks for the pointers everyone and now all I need to do is take some pictures worthy of this level of tracking.
 
Bob,

I have found field notes in a small pocket lined notebook to be the best for me. I get them at the 99cents store a couple at a time. Easily pocketable, nice firm paper, even if it gets slightly wet. This is how I write my notes in my little exposure journal.

1. Date/ Time/ Location
2. Film holder # (ex. 12A)
3. Exposure/ Recommended development(with developer, etc)
4. Lens
5. Any dodging/burning done in camera (with darkslide, generally for clear skies on long exposures)
6. Filename corresponding to small digicam pic I take of *roughly* the same composition( sometimes I just shoot the G/G)

still working out the kinks, cause I'm still somewhat of a *virgin* to LF, not even through my first box of TMY-2 yet .

so far, its worked great. I then transfer my notes into an Excel spreadsheet and print it out. I then keep a copy of the list(when updated) in my printing log.

this gives me a little control and order in one aspect of my crazy, college student, messy life

-Dan
 

On the subject of note taking:

Having to write things down is a bother to me while photographing, but the data may be important. I solved this conflict by carrying a small tape recorder (dictaphone) to record all relevant data during the shoot. After the shoot, I transfer the info to paper.

This is easier for me, but got me some strange looks until people got used to seeing mobile phone users apparently talking to themselves.
 
Dan,

I do something similar. I use a spiral bound pad of perforated 3x5 cards. I note pretty much the same things, then either slip it into the ziplock bag with the exposed holders or just wait until I get home after development. With the notching I can match the notes to the negative pretty easily. I store the negs in Printfile pages, but only use the right-hand sleeve. I put the index card in the left, so it's always there. Cuts negative storage down by 50% but it will still be a while before I need refills.

Ralph,

There are times when it isn't convenient to breakout the note pad and a pen or pencil. For those times I also carry around a small Olympus solid-state recorder. I think it was $25-$30 with enough storage to last me a long time even if I were chatty. It's quite small.
 
My film holders actually have small numbers on transparent discs that block light in the shape of the respective number.

There's a 0-9 disc on each side of the loading flap, so in theory, your holder number is projected onto the film. Of course, if there is no light reaching that area, then no numbers !

Mike
 
So this all sounds pretty neat, and I am sure to be notching out some holders in the near future, but I have a question: I'm not sure I get the reason behind only notching the interior half of the flap? Won't the part of the flap normally ante-the darkslide just shade the internal part? Obviously it works, but why would one not just notch through the whole thing? The darkslide would still prevent light going in until it gets pulled, right?
 
I wondered the same thing as I was notching mine, but followed protocol. I'm guessing one reason is if you attempt to notch both, you stand a better chance of getting debris in the dark slide slot and eventually some of it will migrate to the holder?? Anyway, just doing the inner lip works fine.

mpirie,

Sounds interesting. What sort of holders are those? Can you post a pic?
 

I understand the concern, but the idea is to do as little cutting as you need to. There is no need to cut the outer lip, because the light comes through the lens and reaches the film holder under an angle, and the outer lip does not cover the lower lip sufficiently to cover the notches in the lower lip.
 
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