Identification photos camera 1942?

sionnac · Mar 2, 2021

Hello collective wisdom,
I'm a cataloger working with a public library's photo collection. I've been working with this collection for a few years now, always interesting material. I came across this series of photos showing 1942 Civilian Defense activities in Haverhill, Mass. with people posing for identification photos, but I can't identify the equipment being used - can anyone describe or identify the camera setup in the fifth and sixth photos? Click on the thumbnails to enlarge and you should be able to browse back and forth with arrows on the side. Is it similar to a photobooth? It looks like there is a slot at the bottom facing the photographer, as if the photos would be delivered there. Here's the link to the page: https://haverhill.pastperfectonline.com/photo/596B8839-9286-4003-AAAB-772234938120
Thanks for any info. Dana

sionnac · Mar 5, 2021

Here are a few cropped photos of the cameras

titrisol · Mar 5, 2021

It looks like the cameras that produced ID cards in one picture (such as Polaroid Instant ID system)
A card with your name, address and other info was placed on one side, your picture taken and both combined into 1 single ID with whicever background was chosen.
I believe most driver licenses in the 70s and 80s were made this way

sionnac · Mar 5, 2021

This was in 1942, before Polaroid.

titrisol said:
It looks like the cameras that produced ID cards in one picture (such as Polaroid Instant ID system)
A card with your name, address and other info was placed on one side, your picture taken and both combined into 1 single ID with whicever background was chosen.
I believe most driver licenses in the 70s and 80s were made this way

Kino · Mar 5, 2021

Many photo ID cameras were made by various companies in the USA during WWII; often by companies that had nothing to do with camera production prior to the war. It would be very hard to ID this camera from the photos.

AgX · Mar 5, 2021

It reminds me of the Polyfoto cameras.

Recently we a had a thread on them, where I posted some links.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/studio-portrait-camera-1956.180616/

sionnac · Mar 5, 2021

Kino said:
Many photo ID cameras were made by various companies in the USA during WWII; often by companies that had nothing to do with camera production prior to the war. It would be very hard to ID this camera from the photos.

Thanks

Kino · Mar 5, 2021

This looks like a home-brew system. Most of the ID cameras had a slot to insert a placard that had the company/organization name, the Subject's name and/or serial number to be optically tranferred to the margins of the photo or it formed a frame around the image of the employee; It varied greatly from place to place.

Upon further examination, the slot was probably the place the name and serial number of the ID was placed and through a series of mirrors or beam splitters, this illuminated information was placed in the image path to be superimposed on the film exposure. Kind of like how a teleprompter works at a television station, but not exactly.

Anyway, this looks like it was built by the company as it is rather large and the purpose built cameras I have seen are much more compact.

AgX · Mar 5, 2021

However such ID-card camera as you describe does not need that big as depicted.

CMoore · Mar 5, 2021

That video that AgX linked to ...from British Pathe...that was in the 1950's.?
They were still using glass plates at that time.?

AgX · Mar 5, 2021

Glass plates are even used up to today, though no longer for portraiture.
With the Polyfoto cameras problem was likely the very small image size, and thus for detail the wish for the emulsion laying perfectly flat.

AgX · Mar 15, 2021

AgX said:
However such ID-card camera as you describe does not need to be that big as depicted.

Any new ideas on this?

sionnac · Mar 15, 2021

I think Kino was on the right track.

Kino · Mar 15, 2021

The shear variety of styles produced would likely preclude any positive identification (pun not intended) of the actual camera system used.

AgX · Mar 15, 2021

sionnac said:
I think Kino was on the right track.

Even if it takes a large, filled-out document and contains a light source for that document and 2nd optics, the shape of the camera does not reflect this.

But likely I did not think enough out of the box...

This camera fits that shape. Though I do not see a means to illuminate the document/form.

http://mpmuseum.org/provostident.html

Kino · Mar 15, 2021

This is what I see...

AgX · Mar 15, 2021

What you identify as "camera" seems her right hand to me.
Though that thing left to her hand resembles in that other photo a bit that of 35mm camera body. But that Monroe Duo-Camera already showed that one may think more out of the box.

Kino · Mar 15, 2021

Yeah, I didn't exactly make those arrows with drafting tools and a micrometer...

If you look a tiny bit beyond her hand, that is the camera. I suspect it is a long roll camera. About 20 years ago, we received a shipment of WWII surplus Nitrate film stock that the USAF wanted us to surplus/discard. Many of the cans were still sealed 35mm film on 100 foot daylight loading spools, specifically made for ID badging cameras and produced by DuPont and Ansco. I suspect either her hand or the camera next to it could be loaded with one of these type rolls. We did a short dip/dunk test of a section of this unexposed film and it was still photo active, but we were under orders to destroy it, so into the sliver reclaim barrels it went.

AgX · Mar 15, 2021

Anyway, I do not know anything of that kind from continental Europe. ID photos were made seperately and then cemented or stapled onto the document, then sealed so to say by a stamp print. I do not think that integrated ID cards arrived before the 70's by means of the respective Poloaroid cameras.

That british Polyfot camera already was a revellation for me.

Kilgallb · Mar 27, 2021

Kino said:
This looks like a home-brew system. Most of the ID cameras had a slot to insert a placard that had the company/organization name, the Subject's name and/or serial number to be optically tranferred to the margins of the photo or it formed a frame around the image of the employee; It varied greatly from place to place.

Upon further examination, the slot was probably the place the name and serial number of the ID was placed and through a series of mirrors or beam splitters, this illuminated information was placed in the image path to be superimposed on the film exposure. Kind of like how a teleprompter works at a television station, but not exactly.

Anyway, this looks like it was built by the company as it is rather large and the purpose built cameras I have seen are much more compact.

I used a slightly smaller version in the late 70s for student IDs. The size was to houses motor and a very long roll of bulk film. Students wrote their name an ID number on a card which was inserted into the camera. Every exposure was contact printed with the written information. We actually sent the camera, film and all back to the processing company. We could do about 1000 images with one film load. A week later the ID cards came, as well as prints for the yearbook.

AgX · Mar 27, 2021

The old George Eastman approach: push the button, send in the camera, we do the rest.

AgX · Mar 27, 2021

Kino said:
Many photo ID cameras were made by various companies in the USA during WWII;

AgX said:
Anyway, I do not know anything of that kind from continental Europe. ID photos were made seperately and then cemented or stapled onto the document, then sealed so to say by a stamp print. I do not think that integrated ID cards arrived before the 70's by means of the respective Poloaroid cameras.

That british Polyfot camera already was a revellation for me.

If someone knows anything else european. Please chime in.

Identification photos camera 1942?

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