Idea for a homemade film dryer - feedback welcome

Erik Ehrling · Mar 6, 2008

Hi!

Attached to this post is a quick scetch showing an idea I got for a home made film dryer. Essentially a small "warderobe" in which you hang your films for drying. After closing the door it should be possible to tilt the whole dryer 45 degrees in order to avoid water running along the whole length of the film. The deluxe version of the film dryer would even have a clear glass in the front and a lamp in the back so that one could examine the negatives while drying.

Has anyone built anything similar? Your feedback is very welcome.

Regards,
Erik Ehrling (Sweden)

Erik Hartmann · Mar 6, 2008

Some years ago ... when I had some more room ...... I used a 180 cm high cupboard (closet) ( 180 x40 x40) and put a hairdryer on the top (throu a hole) ..... and then a thermometer on the side......Then something to hang the film on ..... and switch the hairdryer on .... and then no more then 40 c-degree .... open the door a little if it get too hot......and that is the most easy way.....

dpurdy · Mar 6, 2008

I am not sure why you want to make it tilt. I built a large film drying cabinet because I run a lot of film. It is very simple and works very well. Just a box that stands 6 feet (2 meters) tall and is 4 feet wide and 2 feet deep. I put two screw eyes at the top of both sides and ran two wires the width. On the wires I threaded alligator clips to hang film from. On one end of the bottom I cut a hole to run the cord of a small space heater. I hang the film from the clips and on the bottom of rolls I attach a clothes pin for weight. Sheet film I hang by one corner. On the front of the box I have double doors that open the whole box up wide. Very simple, works very well, I don't know why you would want to make it any more complicated than that.

Erik Ehrling · Mar 7, 2008

dpurdy said:
I am not sure why you want to make it tilt.

Maybe I should add that I shoot 35mm so I am really picky about anything that shows up when doing large enlargements (usually 40x27cm ~16x11"). What I have found out is that any water droplets on the non-emulsion side will give quite visible dry marks (even with a last rinse in distilled water + photo flo + isopropanol). Therefore, I wipe the non-emulsion side almost dry with a clean cloth already when I hang up the film to dry. This works fine most of the time, but I don't feel very comfortable doing this. Tilting the drying cabinet, I thought, would make the water run off the film much faster and allow me to avoid touching the film before it's completely dry.

Regards,
Erik Ehrling (Sweden)

jerry lebens · Mar 7, 2008

Erik

I wouldn't be happy wiping films in most circumstances but it depends greatly on the type of cloth (I'd only use chamois leather) and the water supply. In Sheffield, where I learned to develop film, the water is so soft it's actually hard to rinse soap off your hands - drying film there is easy. When I moved to Brighton I couldn't work out why I was getting problems that I'd never had before. After 30 years of developing film here I swear by distilled water. If I can't get that I use a bottled water with a low calcium content - anything is better than the local stuff (I'm perfectly happy to drink tap water though!).

Why you want to dry your films more quickly? A traditional drying cabinet takes about 20-30 mins at 35 degrees C but, personally, I'd rather leave films to dry overnight - that way they tend not to curl so much, meaning they're easier to handle, sit better in the enlarger and suffer less from static (once you've 'charged' a film with over rapid handling it attracts dust, which often becomes 'trapped' with the film - in the neg bag for instance - and hard to get rid of...). Impatience can be the cause of new problems - never ever touch film before you're absolutely certain it's dry - not so much because you'll mark it with your fingers but because, if it's wet, it'll be sticky and act like fly paper for any dust that can enter the cabinet as you open the door.
And, incidentally, if you use a traditional dryer already, once it is dry, turn the heat down and cool the film gently down to room temperature before you open the cabinet - this helps prevent curling.

Thinking about it, I actually do two rinses in distilled water (It's become so automatic that I forgot that I do it twice) I use a Patterson type dev tank, with the film still on the spiral ; the first rinse to remove residual hard water left over from the washing process and the second rinse is clean distilled water with two drops of photo-flow/300 ml... I've used isopropanol to speed drying but only for emergencies, I wouldn't use it on a regular basis because of the reasons set out above. Also - I don't wish to imply that you may be doing anything wrong - but too much photo-flo can cause marks.

What's the nature of the marks you're getting?

Regards
Jerry Lebens

removed account4 · Mar 7, 2008

hi erik

the film dryer that i use
is a plastic 2-door 6' high closet.
just like this
i don't use the shelves, but i drilled holes across the top
on either side and the same a few feet down
and again ...
i strung braided wire ( framer's wire ) across hole to hole
and use clothes pins.
i can hang about 30sheets of large format film ( 4x5 )
and a whole bunch of roll film.
i don't tilt it, and once the doors are
closed and the film is drying,
nothing is able to land on the film.
i also use photo flo to make sure i don't
get water marks &C ...

i used to use a metal closet like this, but
lost it when i moved ... and i found that
the plastic is a good, inexpensive alternative
to building one from scratch, or using another material.

good luck!
john

Mike Wilde · Mar 7, 2008

My diy cabinet

Tall enough for 36 exposure 35mm. About 12" wide, about 10" deep.

Filtered air inlet at bottom front and outlet top rear

Small computer fan exhausts through the outlet at rear. It is controlled by a humidistat that shuts the fan off as the moisture level in the cabinet drops the internal environment close to that which is found in the rest of the house.

For a heat source - a 150W PAR outdoor floodlight at bottom of the cabinet, controller by a thermostat set near the top of the cabinet to keep the air at about 28-30C. It is not bothered if the ocasional water drop hits it.

For a hanging rack, I have screwed an old wire roast beef/turkey cooling rack to the inside of the roof of the cabient . This allows lots of rungs for 35/120 film clips to hang on , and also allows s hooks fitted on top of clothes pegs holding drying 4x5 film.

Erik Ehrling · Mar 7, 2008

jerry lebens said:
When I moved to Brighton I couldn't work out why I was getting problems that I'd never had before. After 30 years of developing film here I swear by distilled water.

The situation here seems to be similar, even if I'm not sure whether hard water or old water pipes is the root cause of the problem. Rinsing in distilled water helps a lot, though, but the results are still a fair bit from perfect. Several frames will have dry marks one them if I don't wipe the non-emulsion side dry after hanging up the film. The propensity for dry marks will be higher the lower down on the film strip a frame is. That's where the idea of tilting the drying cabinet comes from (+ some post I read somewhere on the internet...).

I'm after clean negatives, not fast film drying. I would be perfectly happy letting them dry overnight if I get clean negatives that way.

It strikes me, however, that I should try another brand of distilled water and/or photo flo the next time. The distilled water I am using is called 'battery water' over here, mainly intended for use in car batteries, and maybe it is not clean enough. I'm trying to minimise the use of photo flo, so I don't think too much photo flo is the problem. Maybe it's very fine dust settling on the film before it has dried because I have a feeling that adding isopropanol to the final rinse actually helps.

Thanks for all advice!

Regards,
Erik Ehrling (Sweden)

Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 7, 2008

Why not build an up-right cabinet instead, and just string the film from side to side inside the cabinet, diagonally?
So, if you open the cabinet and look at it from the front, the top of the film is attached to the top right hand side, and the bottom of the film is attached to the left side somehow. The film has to hang 'on edge' so that the film plane is vertical.
That way, any water that travels 'downward' from the top when the film is hung, goes straight to the edge, without accumulating a mass of water at the bottom of your film strip. That sounds a lot easier than tilting the whole cabinet, where you would have to hang the film diagonally anyway.

Tjena,

- Thomas

jerry lebens · Mar 8, 2008

Hi Erik,

I doubt that dust would only affect the lower parts of your films. It's possible that your battery water is contaminated - if it hasn't been filtered it could contain all sorts of rubbish.
As long as you can hang your films in a dust free environment (cupboard/shower cubicle/filing cabinet etc) they should dry clean. I'd devote my attention to obtaining a guaranteed, clean, distilled water supply, not on building a new cabinet. Once you have clean water, you really shouldn't suffer from stains. I buy 25 litre containers from a trade auto parts supplier, but you could use water from a domestic dehumidifier, as long as you filter it carefully.

Jerry

beckymoon · Nov 5, 2008

hi

HI!

how long does it take for the film to dry? do you just leave it or use a hair dryer or anything etc.

thanks

jnanian said:
hi erik

the film dryer that i use
is a plastic 2-door 6' high closet.
just like this
i don't use the shelves, but i drilled holes across the top
on either side and the same a few feet down
and again ...
i strung braided wire ( framer's wire ) across hole to hole
and use clothes pins.
i can hang about 30sheets of large format film ( 4x5 )
and a whole bunch of roll film.
i don't tilt it, and once the doors are
closed and the film is drying,
nothing is able to land on the film.
i also use photo flo to make sure i don't
get water marks &C ...

i used to use a metal closet like this, but
lost it when i moved ... and i found that
the plastic is a good, inexpensive alternative
to building one from scratch, or using another material.

good luck!
john

glbeas · Nov 5, 2008

I built a film drying cabinet once and used a low power heating element from a ceramic heater controlled by a dimmer switch. It worked pretty good but I built it too small. I gave it away when I got a commercial Leedal film drying cabinet.

2F/2F · Nov 5, 2008

I used to dry my film in a plastic wardrobe. I took it down around January, as I have been hanging film at the community college instead, but I will have to put it back up some day. It worked great.

Anscojohn · Nov 5, 2008

Erik Ehrling,
I'm with those who say that drying spots on negs probably would not be a problem solved with a drying cabinet: dust on negs, yes; but not drying marks.
IIRC, some of the old lab rats would put a drop or two of glacial acetic acid in the final rinse along with the wetting agent if the water was really hard.
I hang my negs in the darkroom to dry over night. I use filtered AC water with a small amount of wetting agent for final rinse. No probs.

donbga · Nov 5, 2008

I converted a steel office cabinet that will easily handle 135-36 or 220 roll film and almost any size sheet film in common use today.

Your problem with drying marks lies in the water you are using. Mix a photo flow solution per label instructions with distilled water. Substitute 1/4 to 1/2 half the volume of water with filtered isopropyl alcohol. Give your film a 1 minute photo flow bath and hang to dry. Do not wipe the film! It will dry quickly without heat since the alcohol evaporates at a fast rate. Be sure to install a seal around the inside edges of the cabinet doors and close while the film drys. No dust!

I've done this for years and it is fool proof. Forget the tilt gimmick.

Martin Aislabie · Nov 6, 2008

With reference to the drying marks and your use of Battery Water.

I too use Battery Water from my local car shop - but I do a 2 wash tank method (just like you can use 2 fixer baths).

I have found the biggest problem to be water carry over from the tap water to the wash water

I throw my 1st wash water away after 25 films and then make my 2nd wash water my 1st wash water and use fresh battery water to be my 2nd wash water.

I don’t use Photo-Flo (or similar) and my negs are now free from drying marks.

I have a Durst UT100 Drying Tent - but only use it on the unheated setting.

I modified it to filter dust from the incoming air

Martin

pesphoto · Nov 10, 2008

I bought a tall metal locker at Linen and Things. It has a thin metal bar at the top and I just hang my film.
Its the perfect height for my rolls of 36 exp film. It even has holes in the side and top/bottom to allow some air flow. A bit of photo flo and off they go to hang to drip dry, no water marks.

Monophoto · Nov 10, 2008

My DIY film drying cabinet was made from MDF. It's about 15" square, and 6 feet tall. The front door includes plexiglass inserts so that I can see what's happening inside.

Film hangs on clips that are suspended from a rack made from a scrap of ClosetMaid shelving. Above the shelf is an air filter (the size of the filter determined the size of the box), and there is a light bulb attached to the back wall below the filter but above the rack to provide both light and heat. Above the filter is an air chamber - a fan in the side of the chamber brings in air from the outside, and then it flows down through the air filter, across the light bulb, over the film, and finally out through a vent in the back of the box next to the floor.

Is was as much an exercise in cabinet making as it was a utilitarian item, but it works very well. With the light on adding heat, film dries in 15 minutes or so. Normally, I leave the light off and in that case, it takes 6-8 hours for the film to dry. But the key point is that because the door is closed, dust can't get in to embed itself on the film.

NormanV · Nov 11, 2008

I just hang my films up in my study, I don't get drying marks. I use a couple of drops of Fairy liquid in the final rinse (I have been told that it will cause problems but I have yet to see any after 30 years) There does not seem to be much dust but I actually quite enjoy spotting!

jeroldharter · Nov 11, 2008

I suggest using PVC pipe to make a frame and then clear plastic (like the heavy sheets that home builders use) for the exterior. On one side, use velcro fasteners to open and close the door. A heat fan introduced more dust and curl. If you must,, put an HVAC filter over the intake area and use a low heat fan.

gerryyaum · Nov 11, 2008

hmm Robert Capa's D-Day negs come to mind (crispy fried). Why not just buy a used professionally made dryer? I picked one up for a few bucks recently from a school that went digital. Your idea would probably work but with so much good equipment going cheap because of digital now why bother?

removed account4 · Nov 11, 2008

beckymoon said:
HI!

how long does it take for the film to dry? do you just leave it or use a hair dryer or anything etc.

thanks

hi becky

it dries in a few hours ..
on humid days it might take a bit longer ..

good luck!

john

MikeSeb · Nov 11, 2008

My method is a kind of hybrid of 2F/2F's and Monophoto's. I had an old Prinz forced-warm-air film dryer bought used, but of course the plastic tubular bag in which the film resides below the head was in bad shape; replacement bags are non-existent.

I found a cheapo box-shaped plastic wardrobe bag as a replacement, maybe 15-18 inches square on its ends, and with 4-5 ft long side panels, one of which zips open. The Prinz head is only about 8 inches square so how to attach the larger bag? ClosetMaid to the rescue again. I cut a scrap to fit inside the bag's end panel as a support, with flaps cut out of that end panel to create a rectangular hole for the Prinz head's business end to sit on. Plastic cable ties secure shelf wire to prinz head's existing bag-attachment holes; the flaps are taped around the sides of the head to seal the whole thing up. The original skanky and ineffective filter at the head's top end is replaced with clean furnace filter material and Bob's your uncle (just love that phrase.)

I can easily fit about 6-8 rolls of film and maybe 8-10 sheets of 4x5 without things knocking together and splattering each other. When the air's blowing the whole thing is a positive-pressure system and inflates like a balloon, with only a small hole at the bottom of the bag to let water and air out. Works great, but could be both larger and longer (too short for 220 film).

One of these days I'll get around to building a proper cabinet; this works for now.

nickandre · Nov 11, 2008

can't wait 40 minutes?

jeroldharter · Nov 11, 2008

gerryyaum said:
hmm Robert Capa's D-Day negs come to mind (crispy fried). Why not just buy a used professionally made dryer? I picked one up for a few bucks recently from a school that went digital. Your idea would probably work but with so much good equipment going cheap because of digital now why bother?

That is true. I have an Arkay drying cabinet that works fine. However, he lives in Sweden so these photo drying cabinets might not be so common whereas PVC, velcro and vinyl sheets are ubiquitous.

Idea for a homemade film dryer - feedback welcome

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