ICA Ideal -- Film Holder Size?

I got an ICA Ideal off of ebay last summer. According to everything I've read (plus what the ebay auction listing said) it takes 9x12 cm film.

When it came back in stock, I got some Foma 100 from J&C, plus 2 sets of (2 ea.) film holders in "9x12cm."

It looks like the holders are made to fit a 4x5" camera. It says in small print at the top, "4x5 Film Holder Fidelity..." but in big white print it says "Fidelity Elite 9x12 cm."

I'm thinking one of two things: Either it's really a 4x5" holder made to take 9x12cm film or I just got the wrong thing altogether.

Opinions and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

The Fidelity holders for 9x12 film are the same as the ones for 4x5" film. The only difference is the distance between the film guide rails - the things which keep the film in place. Same with 5x7" / 13x18cm / half-plate: One size fits all, but all films are different.

But your ICA Ideal is a plate camera, which complicates matters a bit. It's made to take 9x12cm single-plate holders, alternatively film packs which haven't been made for decades.

What you need is a few plate holders, and a few film inserts for plate holders. These are fairly easy to find in Europe, but can be different elsewhere. Try http://www.oldcameras.at/index.htm for one shop that has them, he's very nice and reads English. The "subgroup" you want is "Plattenkameras". "Plattenhalter" are not on the list, but ha probably has some. Otherwise you will have to watch German ebay for a while

"Planfilmeinlagen 90x120" are the sheet film adapters.

Unfortunately there is no standardisation of the sizes for the plate holders - or rather there were lots of standards. Just like English spelling... There was a discussion on photo.net this past week (http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00C3RC) about the sizes of various plate holders and which cameras they fit (or not, as the case might be). Fortunately the film inserts are all the same size.

Good luck!

I think it might just be easier to break down and get a 4x5 at this point. At least I'll have film and holders for it.

The old "Plattenkameras" are nice, but they can be a nightmare until you get all the bits you need. I'll keep an eye out (I do that anyway) and let you know if I find something!

The holders you need (I have a dozen of them, ten usable -- and no, they're not for sale) are the Ica or Zeiss-Ikon 726/6. Unlike most 9x12 cm plate holders, these have no external light trap velvet, but instead have a front surface projection around the image frame that nests into a matching recess in the camera back; they insert by putting the lip into a recess in the bottom of the back, then snap in (latch in the upper right, as viewed from behind the camera). They have an external latch on the bottom of the back side that releases the film sheath or plate from the holder at the bottom; the top end is caught under a lip inside the light trap rim.

Your Fidelity 9x12 holders, as others have said, will fit any standard 4x5 camera. And yes, it's likely simpler (in terms of making photographs) to get a 4x5, but if your budget looks like mine, it's still tempting to search around and try to find holders to fit the plate camera; it's the biggest negative you can make for the money (I have about $125 invested into my Ideal, including a second body with bad bellows, but good shutter and lens, one ground glass, and ten usable plate holders with film sheaths -- you have to look long and hard to get a 4x5 with lens, shutter, and film holders for that kind of money, and it probably won't be in any better condition than my 1927 plate camera).

I know for a fact - well, almost - that AgfaTheo has your kind of plateholders. Here's the link AgfaTheo and if you click on 'webmaster' you get to his mail adress. I met him on a fair and then he said he had several plate holders - three bananaboxes full of them, stored in the back of his garage. If you ask him, I'm nearly sure he will look in his collection for you. Have a little patience, though, the bananaboxes are at the back end of the garage, and he can't dig'em out so easily...you might have to wait some weeks. When on the fair, he had some ICA holders with him that fit the description. His prices are very reasonable and he's a nice guy. Hope this helps. BTWW: sheet film for 9x12 film holders can be found at nordfoto.de - I posted the exact link somewhere in one of Ole's threads. Good luck,

medform-norm

medform-norm said:

I know for a fact - well, almost - that AgfaTheo has your kind of plateholders. Here's the link AgfaTheo and if you click on 'webmaster' you get to his mail adress. I met him on a fair and then he said he had several plate holders - three bananaboxes full of them, stored in the back of his garage. If you ask him, I'm nearly sure he will look in his collection for you. Have a little patience, though, the bananaboxes are at the back end of the garage, and he can't dig'em out so easily...you might have to wait some weeks. When on the fair, he had some ICA holders with him that fit the description. His prices are very reasonable and he's a nice guy. Hope this helps. BTWW: sheet film for 9x12 film holders can be found at nordfoto.de - I posted the exact link somewhere in one of Ole's threads. Good luck,

medform-norm

Click to expand...

Thanks! I emailed him about the plattenholders. I got two boxes of 100 ASA Foma not too awful long ago (along with the 4x5 holders) so I have a great source for film in J&C.

Thanks again,

Clint

zenrhino said:

Thanks! I emailed him about the plattenholders. I got two boxes of 100 ASA Foma not too awful long ago (along with the 4x5 holders) so I have a great source for film in J&C.

Thanks again,

Clint

Click to expand...

Well, best of luck in this one. I hope I didn't raise your hopes to no avail. Let us know how you fare with him - other people might find it useful too.

cheers, medform-norm

I picked one of these up that has been adapted to take a polaroid holder.

By the look of it a 9x12 holder has been cut open, and the front glued to the aperture of a polariod 645i holder, so it clips in to the unmodified camera body. The ground glass has been shimmed to set the focusing distance a few mm back so it matches the new holder. Of course scale focusing is out of calibration, but why bother with the hassles of this kind of camera unless you're going to use the ground glass...

It's a pretty slick job, though I haven't really shot much with it - just a few tests. The polariod holder is a bit bulky, and doesn't feel entirely secure when attatched, but once it's on properly, then it seems to lock. As the camera hasn't actually been touched - if I could find a new screen, and a few holders then it cound be used in either mode.

Ian

It might be feasible to rebuild a pair of 9x12cm film pack holders - one for GG, one for Fidelity holders. The pack film holders are common enouh, and utterly useless as holders since pack film production stopped in the 60's.

J&C "Classic" 4x5 film is a fraction larger than nominal 4x5 (for example, Kodak 4x5 films), but it fits Fidelity Elite holders beautifully - it does not drop or move in the holder.

jjstafford said:

J&C "Classic" 4x5 film is a fraction larger than nominal 4x5 (for example, Kodak 4x5 films), but it fits Fidelity Elite holders beautifully - it does not drop or move in the holder.

Click to expand...

Some J&C Pro 100 4x5 is significantly oversize -- clearly labeled as such on their web site; the first batch they had made up was cut incorrectly and is enough too wide it won't fit most film holders or sheaths. All production since then has, AFAIK, been compatible with standard modern film holders. I've seen the opposite, too -- I have a couple boxes of Kodak Tri-X Professional in 9x12 cm, and that film is at least one, possibly 2 mm longer than the same nominal size Fomapan 100; it sticks in a few of my film sheaths and doesn't quite fit the scanning adapter I made (to exact fit for the Foma film that was all I had at the time) for my 4x5 film scanning holder.