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I would love to see your favorite prints on Ilford Multigrade FB Cooltone Paper

grainfall

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Vancouver, WA
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I have some botanical 4x5 shots I did in-studio and I have this feeling they might look good on cool tone paper. I've never used it and haven't seen too many examples out in the wild.

If you've used it, I would be very grateful if you shared your experience in the darkroom - any way in which you'd have to work differently? I'd love to see your favorite examples if you don't mind sharing.

Much appreciated!
 
This is on the RC glossy version:

Tatra T-87

A friend of mine has restored and loves to drive his 1948 Tatra T-87.
Although I'm not sure how much one can glean through the internet.
FWIW, the RC version responds well to toning - both cooling down in Selenium, and warming up in something like Sepia toner.
 

Interesting, nice shot. I've been going down a rabbit hole of digitizing prints in a color/tone-accurate way and more or less abandoned scanning efforts and just shoot them in my studio as it's a far more familiar scene to me than scanning.

I'd be very curious to hear how the cool tone paper reacts to selenium as it's already pretty neutral/cool.

Thanks for the insight!
 
I can't recall whether that scan is of my selenium toned version, but it probably is.
Remembering of course that the RC version will respond at least slightly different than FB to both toning and developer choice, I do see a cooling in selenium. The amount of that effect is subtle but noticeable.
The RC Cooltone happens to be a favorite paper in general for me.
 
I've been exploring this paper lately. Interesting possibilities.

Scan of print on Ilford Cooltone fiber glossy.

Chose vue

 
Is it possible even, to show the characteristics of a b/w paper on the internet? Matt says that his image is on a glossy paper for example - but can anyone tell that just by looking at it on a screen? I think that descriptions of the final print tone and maybe colour are more helpful, but even then... I've found that the only way to find out is get one of Ilford's sample print packs or to buy a small amount of a particular paper to try ones self.

Terry S
 

I don't believe it's impossible to show tonal differences in papers. I've managed to both scan and photograph prints to show comparatively the impact selenium toning has on fiber paper and it's quite clear. If the same potential is untrue for paper types rather than post-print toning then please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Attempting to show subtle tone and sheen differences over the web is a hopeless expectation. I simply don't try, which gets a lot of people pissed off; but no sense pretending. You really really either need to look at actual prints, or else try out the paper for yourself.

MG Classic FB is incapable of obtaining a true cold tone, though it can be shifted a little bit cooler or warmer from it alleged "neutral" position. Cooltone will give a you a true cold tone in the right kind of developer and post-toner (I use gold chloride, not selenium, though they can be combined) - not a "blue-black" like some old time papers, but an honest silvery black with a strong DMax. It's a fine product; but don't expect it to behave like some of the classic cold tone graded Bromide papers of several decades ago.

The two current papers I try to keep on hand are MGWT FB and MR Cooltone FB, typically in 16X20 inch size. But the pricing is getting pretty steep, so I might run out of one or the other before restocking, and just print certain images selectively in the meantime.

Now the specific question about the effect of selenium toning with Cooltone FB - it actually warms the image, while of course deepening the DMax. But it won't intensify it in a neutral black
manner like with classic old Galerie graded bromide paper. I use a very dilute quite affordable equivalent to GP1 gold toner to cool and deepen the final image. A very short amount of time in 1:20 Selenium might be given afterward to add just a hint of another hue dimension, as a very subtle form of split toning - and by subtle, I certainly mean something that isn't going to show on the web, but that can add that "something extra special" to a live print. Less can be more.
But as an optional second toner, I prefer to use a slight hint of a brown sulfide toner instead of Selenium with its mauve-brown cast.
 
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I think there's a general understanding of limitations in what others share here. I'm not looking for an exact replica of what a print looks like in person and I have no expectation of seeing any "sheen." I'm also certainly not in the group of people that are "pissed."

If someone is able to share a moderately accurate representation of their experiences using this paper and/or an example of the print they feel best represents what to expect when using it, I would be grateful for it - while also acknowledging the limitations of sharing scans here.
 
I have a print that is framed and behind glass, my attempts to take a picture of it was nothing but reflections. I do really like the Cooltone paper, it really suits anything metal I think.

The tone changes with the developing time, 2 min vs 6 min in the developer will change the tone noticeably.
 
While it's true that a digital display cannot as a matter of principle look the same way as a physical print, there are perfectly feasible ways to convey the characteristics of a printing paper online. For instance, photos taken at an oblique angle can give a pretty good impression of surface finish and sheen, and a measurement of dmax or even better a color measurement on select tones gives an objective measure of hue. A HD curve captures the response of the paper. Finally, a snapshot of a print can give a general impression, although in the greater scheme of things, this is the least telling of all and the most prone to methodological issues and subjective interpretations. Still, a combination of these factors can be very informative indeed - and it most definitely beats the hell out of "it's not going to be 100% so I won't even try".

I have never printed on this particular paper, otherwise I would certainly be willing to put up some examples.
 
Why would I want to insult my own prints by presenting them in a really ghastly inferior medium? Been there, naively did that once; waste of time. Just like others, I can enjoy "scenes" and travel story photos posted on the web, and general subject matter choices too. But visual nuances are not one of the web's capabilities. Graphs and density curves have their place too, but are no substitute for viewing real prints either. Frankly, it takes some time and patience, and willingness to experiment awhile, to master any unfamiliar paper. I feel I can help better with verbal hints. What others do is their call.
 
This thread has derailed. Can we go back to cool tone paper? I'd really like to learn more about others' experiences and less about whatever this is.
 

Interesting - a cooler tone with a longer developing time I imagine?
 
Dev time range is no different than what is typical for MG Classic or MGWT, or most other papers. Cooltone is inherently a more neutral cooler black - conspicuously different from the rest of the current Ilford paper lineup, and in my opinion, a way better paper than MGIV ever was. But to what extent has its cooler image potential all depends :

Depends on the original neg contrast itself - but for me, in 1:3 130 developer, generally 2 mins is required to obtain a full cold DMax. I often go longer, like 3 min if needed. At only 1-1/2 min at approx normal temp 68F, the image tends to be a little more reminiscent of MG Classic with just a tad of warmth - quite nice for certain images, not for others. So there is some image tone flexibilty based on dev time in the tray; but post-toning response is better with full development (generally 2 min or more).

The question has a lot to do with your developer choice itself. I never liked what I got with conventional MQ "cold" developers in this case, and certainly not with Dektol - they all trended a bit greenish, which selenium toning could only partially cure. So I've settled on glycin 130 with a high degree of success; but it seems to work best a little bit warm, around 72F. I've never tried Ethol LPD, so can't comment on that option.

Exposure time is much faster for Cooltone than MGWT, a little bit faster than Classic.
 

Great info, thank you very much. I've recently been going down the rabbit hole of selenium toning. Is it reasonable to expect similar cooler tones and increased Dmax or is it entirely different? Would selenium toning cool tone paper result in something bizarre?
 
For cool tone I have no problem cooling Classic FB down with Moersch SE6 blue. Cools it down so well that it doesn’t go plum in selenium like it does in any other developer. Just cools down even more.

Alternatively, you can try a PQ developer, adding Bellinis new product called Anti-fog, it is PMT for eliminating fog in older papers. But PMT also cools the image tone. Try adding 30-40ml per liter of Anti-fog to a PQ developer (I use LPD) and you should see a difference.
 
It's doubtful anything will cool Classic to the point of Cooltone itself. Cooltone also seems to produce a better DMax - not to the same degree as MGWT, but that is on a warm base to begin with.

Depends on one's strategy. If they want to keep only one paper on hand, they might choose classic - but it's nowhere near as flexible or punchy as some of the former "neutral tone" papers, like Polygrade V, Harman Fineprint, and Bergger NB.

I already stated my strategy, which is simply to skip over Classic and work with the two separate ends - MGWT and Cooltone, which give me richer prints than Classic did, although it does have its own niche.

But I will jot down your advice, Brian, if I'm in a mood to experiment. Your prescription comes out way more expensive than my current method. I don't know how it compares to what just 0.2 g/ liter of benzotriazole will do. But when one gold tones afterwards, things can be counterintuitive, and ordinary KBr restrainer will yield a colder final image than Benz when 130 glycin is in play. In the old graded bromide paper days, amidol with Benz was the ticket.
 
Drew, give SE6 or PMT a try. Both are way cooler than BZT.

I should add Meorsch developers are long lasting in working solution. So one can reuse developer over a few sessions.
 
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Thanks again. I'm been curious about those products for awhile. But I've got to rein in my B&W printing costs for awhile. The worst culprit is actually museum board. I'm down to about 50 sheets of it now, leftover from my wholesale account days; gosh has that kind of material gone up! And the paper itself - more than double since prior to the pandemic plus all this tariff nonsense.

I've got to take a b&w printing diet (still shooting it, even in 8x10). It's my color printing season soon anhyway. Fortunately, RA4 paper, even in big roll sizes, is still a comparative bargain.
 

I'm very interested in Moersch SE6 blue - I had never heard of it before but after some quick googling this seems like an awesome place to start. Thanks for mentioning it!
 
I have very limited experience with Ilford cooltone paper, and only used the RC (pearl) version. But I was definitely happy with how it rendered metallic objects. I don't have the print handy at the moment, but I thought the effect was nice, and suited the subject well.

Dale
 
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