I want a Leica

blockend · May 23, 2015

A leftfield option - I bought a mint Voigtlander Bessa L, a Kontur viewfinder and a new Industar lens last Christmas for £100 total. That's about half the service price of an LTM Leica. In my experience when people talk Leicas the only thing to do is tell them to buy one and see how it works out, because other cameras rarely scratch the same itch. It can be a very expensive scratch unless they are really lucky, and if they expect a 70 year old Mercedes to drive like a new VW they're in for a disappointment, but the learning curve may be worth the entry price.

If they want a great feeling vintage camera, few things match a screw thread Leica. But by the time they've got it to their eye and focussed it's simpler to zone focus and the Voigtlander Kontur finder is the equal of anything for pre-focused lenses, and leaves a Leica III viewfinder in the dark ages. So for lightning quick photography go for a Bessa and a Kontur. For hugging and messing around with, get a Leica, no question.

https://obscurecamera.wordpress.com/2011/09/08/voigtlander-kontur-finder/

Richard S. (rich815) · May 23, 2015

blockend said:
In my experience when people talk Leicas the only thing to do is tell them to buy one and see how it works out, because other cameras rarely scratch the same itch. It can be a very expensive scratch unless they are really lucky, ]

I disagree based on my experience. I've tried a few Leicas and sold them until I found the ones I liked best. Bought and sold included an M3, IIIa, IIIc and CL. All used for a few months to a couple of years. All sold for the same or higher than I paid. Kept my MP, M2 and IIIf. So what's very experience about that? Cheap to free rentals actually.

blockend · May 24, 2015

Richard Sintchak (rich815) said:
I disagree based on my experience. I've tried a few Leicas and sold them until I found the ones I liked best. Bought and sold included an M3, IIIa, IIIc and CL. All used for a few months to a couple of years. All sold for the same or higher than I paid. Kept my MP, M2 and IIIf. So what's very experience about that? Cheap to free rentals actually.

It depends where you buy. If you purchase from a dealer and sell privately you'll almost certainly lose money. If you don't purchase from a dealer there's a high chance the camera will need remedial work, or a CLA at least. Sixty year old screw thread Leicas that require neither repair nor CLA are expensive, or you've been very lucky indeed.

A lot of LTM Leica owners live with their quirks and eventually sell on hoping to find an example that works perfectly.

Richard S. (rich815) · May 24, 2015

blockend said:
It depends where you buy. If you purchase from a dealer and sell privately you'll almost certainly lose money. If you don't purchase from a dealer there's a high chance the camera will need remedial work, or a CLA at least. Sixty year old screw thread Leicas that require neither repair nor CLA are expensive, or you've been very lucky indeed.

A lot of LTM Leica owners live with their quirks and eventually sell on hoping to find an example that works perfectly.

I guess I should have said buy smartly and with patience. I got my fully CLA'd user IIIc RD from Youxin Ye for $300 USD. In the condition it's in and fully up to spec and cleaned I'm pretty sure I could sell at that or close to that. Same with the M2 I got from him. Years back I got an M3 from him, same deal, for about $675. Sold it a year or two later for the same or thereabouts.

Nathan King · May 24, 2015

Let me preface this by saying I am a Leica junkie; I use a Leica M6 body, Leica Summicron lenses, and even a Leitz enlarger. Leica rangefinders are wonderful pieces of equipment that are delightfully minimalistic, fast to operate, and overbuilt...but they are still just another 35mm camera. They will not greatly improve your photographs nor are they without weaknesses. If you want one then give it a try, but don't expect miracles.

OptiKen · May 24, 2015

Wow!
I'm not much closer to making a decision than I was when I started this thread, but I am a whole lot more informed. Getting feedback from all of you APUG'rs who have actually used these various rangefinders has led me back to the 'net reading with a much more informed 'eye' for what I am looking for.
I want a Leica III for the look and feel of it but after checking all of the cameras suggested and referred to, I may do better with a clone.
The M series is a marvel....but out of my budget and not exactly the look or experience that I am looking for.
The Bessa R is affordable but often referred to as 'cheap and plastic feeling'<?>.
Canon has some interesting offerings....I'm leaning towards the bottom loading ones for the classic look and feel. There is no denying the advantages to a single viewfinder (coupled rangefinder) as well as a larger viewfinder (in the Canon's with a 2 in their model numbers).
I like the looks of the IIS and the IVSB and would like the 2 versions for the larger viewfinder. Canon, however, lacks a pc connector for flash, using a proprietary rail flash instead as well as missing a threaded remote cable release hook-up.
I feel like I'm at a Chinese buffet....everything looks good and everything would be satisfying in their own way but after selecting one, I am hungry to try another one.

blockend · May 24, 2015

Remember to factor in rangefinders like the Kodak Retina, which feel very much like an old Leica in build quality, and were also made in Germany. They have the advantage of being truly pocketable when folded.

Richard S. (rich815) · May 24, 2015

What is your budget?

OptiKen · May 24, 2015

Richard Sintchak (rich815) said:
What is your budget?

under $180

Richard S. (rich815) · May 24, 2015

OptiKen said:
under $180

Might be worth checking in with Youxin Ye. See if he can CLA a nice user IIIa for you at that budget. Google him for his contact info.

Ian Grant · May 24, 2015

I have a IIIa I bought over 40 years ago the shutter is still accurate (never had a CLA) but I had to replace the f2 Summar lens.

I've drifted away from 35mm in recent years, I used an M3 and 50mm Summicron for about 20 years but if I went back and could chose my ultimate 35mm RF camera it would be a Reid III with a TTH Cooke 50mm f2 lens, it's even better built than a Leica - although it is essentially a British made Leica part of WWII war reparations.

Ian

Paul Verizzo · May 24, 2015

Can't speak to your particulars, but don't put brand before results. My Ricoh cameras take pictures every bit as good as any Nikon or Canon.

Signed, an owner of a 1944 Nazi Leica. Still works, although the shutter needs some "tuning."

Pioneer · May 25, 2015

This came from my new (to me) 1936 Leica III w/Elmar 50/3.5. The wonderful thing is that they all take great photographs!

Just as it came from the camera. This one, as well as several others from the same roll of HP5+, are going to make some really nice prints.

cuthbert · May 25, 2015

Pioneer said:
This came from my new (to me) 1936 Leica III w/Elmar 50/3.5. The wonderful thing is that they all take great photographs!

Just as it came from the camera. This one, as well as several others from the same roll of HP5+, are going to make some really nice prints.

Nice one, old man!

flavio81 · May 25, 2015

blockend said:
Remember to factor in rangefinders like the Kodak Retina, which feel very much like an old Leica in build quality, and were also made in Germany. They have the advantage of being truly pocketable when folded.

My Kodak Retina IIIc is one of the best cameras I have, and I have owned about 20 or 24 cameras. It is that good.

OptiKen · May 25, 2015

WHY do I want a Leica?
About a year ago I spent $60 for a Zorki 1. This is a beautiful camera although the chrome isn't as bright as it was when new, it is still gorgeous.
It has new curtains and the shutter appears spot-on. And really, really quiet.
It feels like quality. It fits my hands perfectly, is quick to shoot, and is a joy to use.
What it is missing, though, are slow speeds and I find myself in the shadows more than not.
A victim of, "it must be true, I saw it on the internet", I keep waiting for the camera to implode or whatever it is that FSU cameras do with regularity because quality control is so bad. I admit that even though I own 8 FSU cameras, quality has never been an issue. Age and inactivity has taken it's toll on some of them but QC hasn't seemed to be suspect at all.
So I am on the hunt for a Leica because they are assembled in heaven with other-worldly parts that never fail or let you down.
Perhaps I should stop worrying that my Zorki will fail me and just enjoy it until it is no longer enjoyable or breaks.

Hatchetman · May 25, 2015

IMO get the camera you want. Worst case you don't like it and sell it for 80% of what you have in it.

cuthbert · May 25, 2015

A friend o'mine CLAs his soviet gear and his Zorki 1 is as smooth as a Leica IIa. He bought one to compare apples with apples. They look and feel the same.

Still he wanted to have a Leica as benchmark, there's nothing wrong with that, I've more Leicas than Soviet RFs.

phil0 · Jun 3, 2015

Just bite the bullet and get an M3. In 20 or 30 years you'll still be happy with it and the price will have been long forgotten.

rthollenbeck · Jun 3, 2015

Robots are at least as well made. Leica by far has the better lens assortment and availability.

mweintraub · Jun 3, 2015

Hatchetman said:
IMO get the camera you want. Worst case you don't like it and sell it for 80% of what you have in it.

I call that the long term rental charge.

Xmas · Jun 3, 2015

rthollenbeck said:
Robots are at least as well made. Leica by far has the better lens assortment and availability.

You can use any LTM lens on a Leica III or M...
The late Canon VI P and T have baffle plates that rule out some FSU and Ja LTM wides.

Lamar · Jun 4, 2015

I just went down a similar path. I won't repeat the boring details here but if you havn't seen it yet here is the thread. (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

I was so happy with the IIIc I bought the 1938 IIIb he had for sale too. at $195 and $210 with a CLA these are good deals to me. Both are in great condition mechanically. Cosmetically they show signs of use but these are users........ not shelf sitters. I must say I am impressed with the slow speeds and with the smoothness of the shutter release. I like the shutter release better than any other camera I have used. I have been able to easily squeeze off sharp shots handheld at 1/10th.

IIIc & J8 handheld with shutter at 1/10th:

IIIc & J8 handheld leaning my backside against a post with shutter at 1/4th:

OptiKen said:
WHY do I want a Leica?
About a year ago I spent $60 for a Zorki 1. This is a beautiful camera although the chrome isn't as bright as it was when new, it is still gorgeous.
It has new curtains and the shutter appears spot-on. And really, really quiet.
It feels like quality. It fits my hands perfectly, is quick to shoot, and is a joy to use.
What it is missing, though, are slow speeds and I find myself in the shadows more than not.
A victim of, "it must be true, I saw it on the internet", I keep waiting for the camera to implode or whatever it is that FSU cameras do with regularity because quality control is so bad. I admit that even though I own 8 FSU cameras, quality has never been an issue. Age and inactivity has taken it's toll on some of them but QC hasn't seemed to be suspect at all.
So I am on the hunt for a Leica because they are assembled in heaven with other-worldly parts that never fail or let you down.
Perhaps I should stop worrying that my Zorki will fail me and just enjoy it until it is no longer enjoyable or breaks.

Sirius Glass · Jun 4, 2015

I do not own a Leica TLM or M Series camera, after all these years am I missing something special?

A few cameras have a special feel that others do not have, Leica and Hasselblad for example. It is something about the fit, finish, feel and handling.

In the 1960s when I could afford a single lens reflex I bought a Minolta SR-7 with a f/1.4 lens. I had already shot 135, 120 and 620 film, processed and printed them. I had also extensively shoot slide film with a range finder camera. I choose a single lens reflex camera because I wanted to see what was in and out of focus, I wanted to see what was really in the field of view, I wanted a large range of focal lengths than range finder cameras offered, and I wanted to be able to see what a polarizer would do and set it for the results that I wanted.

I have 35mm slr cameras. I have been using Hasselblads for over eight years and 4"x5" Speed Graphic and Graflex Model D for a few years less. Now that I am retired, have the time and money, I am wondering what is anything I am missing by not owning and using a Leica TLM or M series camera.

I am not interested in product bashing. I am wondering about what I would gain by owning and using a Leica?

OptiKen · Jun 4, 2015

What did I do????

First: I didn't buy a Leica....at least not yet. Common sense tells me to save up for an M3 or another in the M series. Emotionally, I still want one of the Barnack styles...most likely a IIIf .

Reading all of the advice I received from all of you in this thread sent me out researching some more and while the Leica is an excellent camera, there are a number of others in that style that are quite possibly equal or better in some ways than the old Leica.

Finally....as treatment for my GAS, I picked up a Canon IIf for $75 and the flash that goes with it. It has a single viewfinder rather than having to switch between rangefinder and viewfinder as well as the 3 position finder to assist in focusing as well as framing with other size lenses. It looks like a very nice camera and the price seems right to me so I am looking forward to picking it up this weekend. I have no guilt when it costs less than $100.

In the meantime, my Zorki I is still proving to be a pleasure to use and I will see how it feels next to the Canon when it arrives. And maybe after I sell off some of the (too many) cameras I have, I will be able to 'step up' to the Leica....or maybe a better Canon like the IVSB2 or...?????

I want a Leica

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