I think this will get addictive

Joel_L · Jan 19, 2020

A bit over a year ago I bough t a Cambo 4x5 and Nikon lens. I shot a few BW negatives to test things and put it away. I don't have a light meter, so found a meter app for android. Spend some time calibrating it against a camera with a good meter, used center weighted average on my EOS3. I decided to test it by shooting Provia 100 figuring slide film would be more critical to metering. I took this picture from my front yard, nothing special. I think the meter app worked well at least in this case, will need to play more to be sure. But most of all, I really like the way a 4x5 slide looks. Now I need to get out and find some better subject matter. One thing I learned very quickly, nothing goes fast in 4x5.

Alan Edward Klein · Jan 19, 2020

Nice shot. I just started to with 4x5. Nothing developed yet. How did you scan the chrome?

138S · Jan 19, 2020

Joel_L said:
used center weighted average on my EOS3. I decided to test it by shooting Provia 100 figuring slide film would be more critical to metering.

There are many ways to meter for film and everyone uses what he likes, but for slides I'd suggest you try spot metering. Some scenes are easy to meter but Provia may be challenging in many situations, and as a 4x5 slide is a little treasure you may want to know what local over/under exposure you have in each image area. You may bracket with 35mm film to know how sky/clouds/vegetation/etc renders at each level of exposure, and also the other subjects you shot, this allows to take the right decisions when using a graded ND or when you have to sacrifice something.

Also think that meters have particular spectral sensitivities, so a blue sky may look well exposed while it isn't, depending on the blue sensitivity in the meter and in the film, so a refined way is using 35mm film and spot metering sky (and etc) and then bracketing, you will know how in practice each subject looks depending on local exposure measured with the meter you use.

Of course we always may bracket the sheet, but if it's an important scene then we may prefer to spend two sheets with same exposure, to have a backup, and we want both perfectly exposed... in that case precision spot metering rocks.

Joel_L · Jan 19, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
Nice shot. I just started to with 4x5. Nothing developed yet. How did you scan the chrome?

That is just an image I took with my phone. The 4x5 is sitting on a small battery powered light table I have ( look closely, you will see it's not flat, that's why the edges are off). I will post a scan soon just to see how it turns out. For film to something I can share, I use an Epson V700.

Joel_L · Jan 19, 2020

138S said:
There are many ways to meter for film and everyone uses what he likes, but for slides I'd suggest you try spot metering. Some scenes are easy to meter but Provia may be challenging in many situations, and as a 4x5 slide is a little treasure you may want to know what local over/under exposure you have in each image area. You may bracket with 35mm film to know how sky/clouds/vegetation/etc renders at each level of exposure, and also the other subjects you shot, this allows to take the right decisions when using a graded ND or when you have to sacrifice something.

Also think that meters have particular spectral sensitivities, so a blue sky may look well exposed while it isn't, depending on the blue sensitivity in the meter and in the film, so a refined way is using 35mm film and spot metering sky (and etc) and then bracketing, you will know how in practice each subject looks depending on local exposure measured with the meter you use.

Of course we always may bracket the sheet, but if it's an important scene then we may prefer to spend two sheets with same exposure, to have a backup, and we want both perfectly exposed... in that case precision spot metering rocks.

Agreed, the phone meter was a quick way that was a few steps better than my best guess. It can do limit spot ( as narrow as the zoom on my phone can do ). In 35mm, I tend to do multi spot readings and expect I'll do the same with 4x5. Even though a box of slide film is somewhat pricey, I have one box of 20 sheets just to sort things out with.

Joel_L · Jan 19, 2020

This is the same image scanned so I could upload it. No adjustments of any kind. Dust is a persistent issue for me, so please excuse the specs.

removed account4 · Jan 19, 2020

hi joel

you don't need a spot meter to shoot chromes. i've shot them 4x5 for years without a spot meter, just a ambient sekonic or similar.
now i don't even use a meter and just sunny11. the hardest part is finding a lab nowadays that processes LF chrome, dumping it down
the drain isn't on the "to do" list ..
good luck !

mshchem · Jan 21, 2020

Get a Nikor sheet film tank and do your own chromes, or a Mod 54 and a Paterson tank. The Arista E6 kits will work fine. I love Fujichrome, I use an incident meter, the phone apps work very well. Sunny 16 too.

BradS · Jan 22, 2020

jnantz said:
hi joel

you don't need a spot meter to shoot chromes. i've shot them 4x5 for years without a spot meter, just a ambient sekonic or similar.
now i don't even use a meter and just sunny11. the hardest part is finding a lab nowadays that processes LF chrome, dumping it down
the drain isn't on the "to do" list ..
good luck !

Aye! No spot meter required.
I too only use an incident or reflected (Gosssen Luna Pro SBC) and have even, on occasion, when I felt bold, exposed provia using nothing more than the sunny-11 rule.

138S · Jan 22, 2020

BradS said:
Aye! No spot meter required.
I too only use an incident or reflected (Gosssen Luna Pro SBC) and have even, on occasion, when I felt bold, exposed provia using nothing more than the sunny-11 rule.

jnantz said:
you don't need a spot meter to shoot chromes. i've shot them 4x5 for years without a spot meter, just a ambient sekonic or similar.
now i don't even use a meter and just sunny11.

I depends !! Ansel Adams nailed the Moonrise exposure by only smelling the moon, and an indident reading may be all we need for a particular scene...

But we cannot overlook how useful is spot metering in challenging situations.

Inident metering may not meter the incident light that is arriving to a distant subject, and some subjetcs emit light rather receiving incident light. An spot meter tells us how overexposed will be sky and clouds allowing to select the suitable graded ND for a sunset, and it also tells resulting exposure of distant shadows.

Then an spot meter can be quite cheap, just a consumer Nikon F65 is perfect.

Not saying the Sunny or incident are bad, just saying that often an spot metering is of great value with 4x5 expensive slides: you may want to know exactly what you are doing, and sometimes only spot metering says it.

removed account4 · Jan 22, 2020

138S said:
But we cannot overlook how useful is spot metering in challenging situations. < ... > Not saying the Sunny or incident are bad, just saying that often an spot metering is of great value with 4x5 expensive slides: you may want to know exactly what you are doing, and sometimes only spot metering says it

sure, if you have it, use it, but its not necessary. been photographing without a meter for a long long time
its a matter of reading the light, not the light-meter. one gets too dependent on spot meters one will be up the creek when one goes on a
"photo safari" and ... forgets it at home on the kitchen table ...

sure, everything is expensive. learning to read the light is cheap.
if it's available one can start by practicing with a digital camera without a meter, every exposure is free and shootingdigital is very much like shootingchromes

NB23 · Jan 22, 2020

Joel_L said:
A bit over a year ago I bough t a Cambo 4x5 and Nikon lens. I shot a few BW negatives to test things and put it away. I don't have a light meter, so found a meter app for android. Spend some time calibrating it against a camera with a good meter, used center weighted average on my EOS3. I decided to test it by shooting Provia 100 figuring slide film would be more critical to metering. I took this picture from my front yard, nothing special. I think the meter app worked well at least in this case, will need to play more to be sure. But most of all, I really like the way a 4x5 slide looks. Now I need to get out and find some better subject matter. One thing I learned very quickly, nothing goes fast in 4x5.

View attachment 238384

Well, the only fast thing is that you learned it quickly

138S · Jan 22, 2020

jnantz said:
sure, if you have it, use it, but its not necessary. been photographing without a meter for a long long time
its a matter of reading the light, not the light-meter. one gets too dependent on spot meters one will be up the creek when one goes on a
"photo safari" and ... forgets it at home on the kitchen table ...

John, slides have a very narrow latitude in the highlights, in some scenes you have to meter very, very accurately sky and clouds, and you have to select the graded ND accurately because scene highlights range simply does not fit in the Provia latitude, in that case it's not enough to "read the light".

If you toast a Porvia/Velvia 8x10" slide you remember that pain for years or even for decades. I remember well every smoking toast I made with 4x5" Velvia

You spot meter sky and clouds, and you know if the thing will be a toast or not !!!

Of course "reading the light" is also quite important, meter won't say how beautiful light will be...

Joel_L · Jan 22, 2020

Thanks for the replies. I'm in the spot meter being useful camp. I have an OK eye for knowing when a scene is going to loose on one end or the other and deciding what I rather have, highlights, shadows, maybe give up some of both to get the mid I want.

For now, I will continue to use this phone app, maybe my brain will calibrate and do meterless exposures. I like the idea of manually using my digital camera to practice, may give that a go.

I really want to minimize the misses with chromes, not only the cost but the time in doing the processing. I use a Jobo at home which helps, but my current setup still makes it cumbersome.

None the less, I do enjoy this camera and looking forward to some real outings.

NB23 · Jan 22, 2020

How many versions of f8@1/60 are there?

removed account4 · Jan 22, 2020

138S said:
John, slides have a very narrow latitude in the highlights, in some scenes you have to meter very, very accurately sky and clouds, and you have to select the graded ND accurately because scene highlights range simply does not fit in the Provia latitude, in that case it's not enough to "read the light".

If you toast a Porvia/Velvia 8x10" slide you remember that pain for years or even for decades. I remember well every smoking toast I made with 4x5" Velvia

You spot meter sky and clouds, and you know if the thing will be a toast or not !!!

Of course "reading the light" is also quite important, meter won't say how beautiful light will be...

im well aware of the cost of film ...
its kind of funny that the OP is learning LF with the most expensive media there is, but its fun and addictive so its great.
i've smoked plenty of film but that's how you learn. its better not to be tied to a crutch. i've shot plenty of spot on chromes
without a meter, its best to learn how do read the light and create an exposure from it, than to be endlessly metering a scene only to
never take the photograph ( light or scene changes &c ). its not hard and is a very good thing to practice.
good luck joel !

138S · Jan 23, 2020

jnantz said:
its best to learn how do read the light and create an exposure from it, than to be endlessly metering a scene only to
never take the photograph ( light or scene changes &c ). its not hard and is a very good thing to practice.
good luck joel !

Just an opinion, at the begining it is better to "endlessly metering", this is the way to learn and to get feeback from the results we obtain. As one gets more experienced with the film/processing we use then we need to meter less, to the point that sometimes the Sunny rule can even be enough.

With experience we may only need to check from one to three spots in an scene, but when starting the more we meter the better feedback we get, learnig faster, I guess you will agree with this.

Anyway it's true that we have to play extraordinary attention to the light quality, we may be abstracted in the metering and not being aware about what light makes with subject, these are two different things, a photographer should master both, but a LF photographer should master specially well exposure because rather than bracketing we may take two equal exposures to have backup, an also we may even expose for an custom processing for each sheet.

I think this will get addictive

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