I think I want an RZ67...

bvy · Nov 9, 2015

I love my Yashica Mat 124G and I'll continue to use it, but it has its limitations. I'm looking for something that will give me portraits up close -- face fills the frame. (Lens recommendations?) Also, I want something more suited to studio use with strobes. Finally, I like that it's not mechanical and maybe a little more reliable and precise. Am I barking up the right tree here?

Alan Gales · Nov 10, 2015

You should really like the RZ. I used the 110mm and 180mm for portraiture. I never shot as close as you want to but there are a couple extension tubes for getting closer with the 180. The extension tubes go for dirt cheap on Ebay. There is also a 250mm that some prefer for portraits.

If you don't own any strobes yet and are on a budget look at Novatron. Used pre digital power blocks go for cheap on Ebay because they will fry a digital camera unless you use a slave or pocket wizard. Look for a set with power block, strobes, stands, umbrellas and case. You can reflect the strobes with the umbrellas or shoot threw them. There are also barn doors and snoots available. Novatron is still made in Texas. Ken Rockwell has a favorable write up about them if you are interested in reading it.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/strobes.htm

film_man · Nov 10, 2015

If you want something that gives you portraits with face filling framing capabilities I really can't think of anything better than a RZ/RB this side of sheet film.

mweintraub · Nov 10, 2015

Love the RZ. Didn't use it too much in a "studio", but I've run and gun'd it and got some of my favorite dog photos from it.

M Carter · Nov 10, 2015

Alan Gales said:
If you don't own any strobes yet and are on a budget look at Novatron. Used pre digital power blocks go for cheap on Ebay because they will fry a digital camera unless you use a slave or pocket wizard. Look for a set with power block, strobes, stands, umbrellas and case. You can reflect the strobes with the umbrellas or shoot threw them. There are also barn doors and snoots available. Novatron is still made in Texas. Ken Rockwell has a favorable write up about them if you are interested in reading it.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/strobes.htm

I started with Novatron and they're a lot of bang for the buck - but unless they've redesigned their heads, only a brave soul sticks anything bigger than a small softbox on them - the mounting for speed rings is (was?) utter crap and the models I owned all had 1/4" receivers and the cheap adapters to get them on standard 5/8 gear were wobbly and brittle aluminum that would snap off at the worst times (though they do sell kits to convert the heads to 5/8 for $20 or so a head). I did keep my old Novatron monolight since it goes downs to 60 w/s and recharges in a blink.

I'd also consider many of the current "affordable" monolights - almost all of them use the Bowens mount, which is sturdier (still can't beat Speedotron) and there are just tons of aftermarket gear. Adorama, B&H, used, Calumet...

I'd give a much, much stronger recommendation for used Speedotron Brown Line (or Black if you find a deal). Brown line heads can take all the black line accessories, and they're plentiful on the used market.

Also, the RZ does require a battery to work - the RB Pro-S or Pro-SD would be good models to consider as well, if you want fully mechanical. The original RB is a good choice if you're on a really, really low budget. The upgrades to the Pro-S were all very useful and worth any extra cash (in today's used market anyway).

Kyle M. · Nov 10, 2015

I use an RB67 Pro S with the Pro SD backs, the SD backs don't have light seals that deteriorate like the earlier Pro and Pro S backs. I've also used an RZ but prefer the RB for it's mechanical simplicity, I personally prefer my gear not to have electronics I'm far more trusting of mechanical parts YMMV. A lot of people find the RB/RZ to heavy to take out walking around but I find that it's just fine as long as you sling it from your shoulder and not around your neck. I have no trouble hand holding an RZ/RB with the 90mm lens at 1/60th and I've even got good shots the few times I pushed myself and shot it at 1/30th.

Alan Gales · Nov 10, 2015

M Carter said:
I started with Novatron and they're a lot of bang for the buck - but unless they've redesigned their heads, only a brave soul sticks anything bigger than a small softbox on them - the mounting for speed rings is (was?) utter crap and the models I owned all had 1/4" receivers and the cheap adapters to get them on standard 5/8 gear were wobbly and brittle aluminum that would snap off at the worst times (though they do sell kits to convert the heads to 5/8 for $20 or so a head). I did keep my old Novatron monolight since it goes downs to 60 w/s and recharges in a blink.

I'd also consider many of the current "affordable" monolights - almost all of them use the Bowens mount, which is sturdier (still can't beat Speedotron) and there are just tons of aftermarket gear. Adorama, B&H, used, Calumet...

I'd give a much, much stronger recommendation for used Speedotron Brown Line (or Black if you find a deal). Brown line heads can take all the black line accessories, and they're plentiful on the used market.

Your experience using soft boxes with Novatrons is interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Personally, I don't use soft boxes because I mostly shoot in living rooms where they are just too large. I really like the umbrellas. I've sold my RZ but still use the Novatrons for digital. I did a corporate shot of my wife recently that her boss was thrilled with. It's on the company web page now.

TheFlyingCamera · Nov 10, 2015

IF you're buying used Novatrons, you need to be careful which ones you get. Do your research in advance because some of the older models (and I don't remember which) are prone to arcing when you connect/disconnect heads from power sockets. Best case scenario if that happens is you trip a circuit breaker in your house and/or blow a fuse on the pack and are down until you can replace the fuse. Worst case scenario, the EMTs are called because the pack discharged through YOU and you're unconscious and not breathing on the floor. IF you have one of the older packs, make sure to turn it off, unplug it, then pop the flash to discharge any residual juice in the capacitors before adding/removing/reconfiguring heads. Same with older Normans, Balcars and Speedotrons. And be triply careful with vintage Ascorlight units. They make beautiful light, but they pack a LOT of whallop.

As a guideline, if you're not terribly experienced with working with electronic flash units, start with a nice pair of monolights. As someone else mentioned, look for something that takes the Bowens S-mount connectors as accessories are inexpensive and widely available. They don't need to be fancy or expensive, and they'll be easier to use because the power output controls are all on each light, and you won't have to worry about switching power outlets or adjusting channels to increase or decrease output.

bvy · Nov 10, 2015

But we digress. Actually, I already have strobes -- three Travelite 750's and one AB 800. I had been looking at Speedotron Black Line power supplies and heads to get enough light to do studio wet/dry plate and litho film. I appreciate the warning about these.

Anyway, I think I'll start shopping for an RZ67. Might look again at some of the RB's too...

mweintraub · Nov 10, 2015

bvy said:
Anyway, I think I'll start shopping for an RZ67. Might look again at some of the RB's too...

I had an RB. It was great, except I sold it to get a Bronica SQ-A. I eventually came back and added the the RZ. The reason I chose the RZ instead of the RB again? 110mm 2.8. The Winder is nice so i can do family photos with a long bulb "remote".

TheFlyingCamera · Nov 10, 2015

bvy said:
But we digress. Actually, I already have strobes -- three Travelite 750's and one AB 800. I had been looking at Speedotron Black Line power supplies and heads to get enough light to do studio wet/dry plate and litho film. I appreciate the warning about these.

Anyway, I think I'll start shopping for an RZ67. Might look again at some of the RB's too...

As an FYI, since you're mentioning Speedotron Black Line units for doing in-studio wet plate, you'll probably need several 2400 w/s packs to get enough power to shoot wet plate. As in three or four of them. Yes, Speedotron made a 4800ws pack, but if you read the specs carefully, the nominal output is really only about 40% more than the 2400 w/s pack - Guide number 1000 vs 710. If you need the big power for wet plate, look for an Elinchrom 6000ws pack on Ebay.

M Carter · Nov 10, 2015

I've owned Speedo black for years - I still have some really old packs, like the 812 and 1201A, no dial-down power.

If they're in good repair, you should have no danger with those - but you HAVE TO POWER DOWN before plugging in or unplugging heads. It's printed right on the pack! (You can leave the model lights on though) And every couple months, power them up for a half hour or so to "form the capacitors".

The good thing is, there are plenty of the 1201 and 2400 packs out there used. They're workhorses, but these days they're overpowered for many people and difficult to tamp down to shoot wide open so people have moved to smaller dial-down packs if not, you've got bleeder heads snaking into every closet before long. And many pros and rental places have switched to Profoto. But the big speedos are good for shooting 4x5 product at F45 and many people are using them for wet plate now.

Just remember, you can't mix Black and Brown line packs and heads, but accessories from the last few decades fit both. The later model, smaller black line heads without the fans and with lower-powered modeling lights require newer reflectors with big openings for the fatter tube though, so keep an eye out for that (they're great heads for location work, but have 150 vs 250 modeling lights, or thereabouts - but they're as tough as the bigger heads).

arealitystudios · Nov 10, 2015

Years ago I bought an RZ67 on a whim just because I saw it cheap on craigslist. In a very short period of time it became one of my most used cameras. They are seriously rock solid and great picture taking machines and I highly recommend them. I use mine inside, outside, in the studio, whatever. It is a big camera, but I find that I can hand hold it no problem in a lot of situations. It is certainly not a discreet "street camera" but I don't think anyone buying one would be fooled into thinking it could be.

My favorite lens is the standard 110mm f/2.8. Great lens. Sharp with wonderful bokeh.

I love that the RZ67 can take lenses both for the RZ and the RB. Opens up a world of inexpensive and highly underrated glass!!

My recommendation would be to start with the standard 110mm lens and a couple of good backs. The instant back is a lot of fun when you use it with Fuji FP-100c. If you spend the time to recover the "negative" side it is actually one of the cheaper ways to work with color film. I would also recommend getting an L-Grip (I use a generic flash grip I found at a flea market) for hand holding. It helps a lot and I actually find it more hand holdable than a Pentax 67.

M Carter · Nov 10, 2015

arealitystudios said:
Years ago I bought an RZ67 on a whim just because I saw it cheap on craigslist. In a very short period of time it became one of my most used cameras. They are seriously rock solid and great picture taking machines and I highly recommend them. I use mine inside, outside, in the studio, whatever. It is a big camera, but I find that I can hand hold it no problem in a lot of situations. It is certainly not a discreet "street camera" but I don't think anyone buying one would be fooled into thinking it could be.

My favorite lens is the standard 110mm f/2.8. Great lens. Sharp with wonderful bokeh.

I love that the RZ67 can take lenses both for the RZ and the RB. Opens up a world of inexpensive and highly underrated glass!!

My recommendation would be to start with the standard 110mm lens and a couple of good backs. The instant back is a lot of fun when you use it with Fuji FP-100c. If you spend the time to recover the "negative" side it is actually one of the cheaper ways to work with color film. I would also recommend getting an L-Grip (I use a generic flash grip I found at a flea market) for hand holding. It helps a lot and I actually find it more hand holdable than a Pentax 67.

I agree - the first time I looked through the RB viewfinder, I was done. Big, bright glorious image from a big, chunky, metal camera. And a well shot neg on the lightbox just looks three dimensional.

I have to say though, if you're more a portraits guy - the 180 is a mojo lens. I like the 250 a lot, but the 180 is a great compromise between size/weight and super compression. My most-used lens. And I WILL HAVE the 360mm some day...

mweintraub · Nov 10, 2015

M Carter said:
I agree - the first time I looked through the RB viewfinder, I was done. Big, bright glorious image from a big, chunky, metal camera. And a well shot neg on the lightbox just looks three dimensional.

I have to say though, if you're more a portraits guy - the 180 is a mojo lens. I like the 250 a lot, but the 180 is a great compromise between size/weight and super compression. My most-used lens. And I WILL HAVE the 360mm some day...

Yes, I even started a thread here about how sharp the lenses are just looking through the viewfinders!

The 65mm is amazing too!

Stephen Prunier · Nov 10, 2015

I love my RZ. I don't currently use it in a studio setting, although that will change eventually. One thing to be aware of, the Pro II backs don't use foam seals. So you don't need to worry about replacing them. I had to replace the seals in one of my Pro backs, and bought them from a fellow apug member. The Pro II backs will work with all models of the RZ.

As for the 180mm lens. I know there are 3 models not including the SB Model. Is the W-N model the latest of the 3? They're so cheap I'm thinking of getting one. I would like to get the most current model.

mweintraub · Nov 12, 2015

Stephen Prunier said:
As for the 180mm lens. I know there are 3 models not including the SB Model. Is the W-N model the latest of the 3? They're so cheap I'm thinking of getting one. I would like to get the most current model.

I think the W-N is the most recent, yes. The W means the aperture ring "clicks" are spaced wider so you can stop at 1/2 stops. (In case you didn't know.) But the 180mm is amazing too. (What Mamiya MF lens isn't!?)

Mainecoonmaniac · Nov 12, 2015

I've been using my RZ system for over 30 years and yes, it's an excellent portrait camera. The lenses are pretty sharp and I love the 3 1/4 x 3 1/4 Polaroid proofs. You can also use older RB lenses too. It was the preferred camera of Herb Ritts and Annie Leibovitz.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/50102614574070238/
http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Annie_Leibovitz

bvy · Nov 12, 2015

You all have sold me!

pthornto · Nov 12, 2015

Yeah the RB/RZ series are pretty cool machines! I just bought an RB67 SD and have put a few rolls through it. I also own a Rolleiflex and find the 2 quite complementary in the MF world. The Rollei is much smaller and the lack of mirror black out makes it a bit quicker in fluid situations (I try to photograph my daughters!). There RB wins for versatility though and I can get closer to subjects with the bellow focus and have a rectangular negative that fits the way I typically print. Great to have both though...

M Carter · Nov 12, 2015

And yep, the SD backs are convenient, but if you get a deal on a Pro-S back, go for it - if it has light leaks, google Jon Goodman for a seal kit. Re-sealing them takes less than an hour from laying out a towel to cleanup, and (with his instructions) it's easy and satisfying, and you're done for another decade or two.

He has a kit to redo all the foam on the RB as well, including the mirror shock absorber. It's a bit more work, but if you're even vaguely handy and like the old gear, it's very satisfying to bring an old girl back to her prime, and it's really a once-a-decade or longer operation.

Skip the original "pro" backs (and the non pro-S cameras), there are too many great features that came with the Pro-S (if you don't go RZ). Many used sellers say "Pro, Pro-S, Pro-SD" on their back listings since they'll work on all the cameras. You can spot a Pro-S back by two things: the Chrome "Pro-S" logo on the shell-door, and the double exposure lever under the winder. SD backs look more squared off and "modern".

EdSawyer · Nov 12, 2015

The RZ is great, as mentioned. The prices of the lenses on the used market is almost criminally low! New, most of these lenses could not be had for under $1500 from B&H, and some were well north of $6-8K (the Apo 350, 500, etc.). Now, they sell for pennies on the dollar. It's a great system in general. The only place it's lacking (if at all) is in the tilt/shift functionality.

TooManyShots · Nov 12, 2015

I had it for a while and I thought I could live with the weight and size. Ultimately, I didn't shoot with it much. When I do, it feels awkward. I had a 65mm back then and the focal length is equivalent to 35mm. The lens is massively heavy but the build quality is super. Doing outdoor and street photograph with it is like carrying a cinder block. I am surprised I didn't injure myself swinging that beast around me whenever I tried to take shots. I could tolerate the weight but the size??? I later got the 110mm because I thought a smaller and lighter lens would help. I didn't shoot with the system much, although the 6x7 negative is gorgeous.

I sold the entire system later on. I got my second Yashica Mat afterward because I had some 120 films left and wanted a cheap medium format body to shoot with. Now, the Yashica Mat is fun too shoot. Is lighter and quicker to get the shots. Importantly, I don't feel like drawing attentions to myself with a small camera. I still have my Yashica Mat and last week I picked up Hasselblad 553 elx with a 80mm f2.8. The weight is only slightly lighter than the Mamiya rz but the size is compact enough that I could tuck away on my size and using a shoulder strap across my body.

You have been warned....

juan · Nov 13, 2015

Jon Goodman is not on the net anymore, but he is still supplying the seal kits. I bought one a couple of weeks ago.
Email him at jon_goodman@yahoo.com.
juan

Mainecoonmaniac · Nov 13, 2015

TooManyShots said:
I had it for a while and I thought I could live with the weight and size.

I got the RZ in my twenties and now I'm in my 50's. I don't hike with it anymore. My last long hike in San Francisco, I brought my Fuji GSW 6x9 and my Olympus XA. It's weight is even worst if you have an RZ with a prism. When I travel overseas, I mainly use my Canon F-1 (n) and 2 lenses, an Olympus XA and a mirror less digital. My trip to Turkey and Greece I had 15lbs of gear which is my limit. I'm sure it's going to get lighter as I get older

I think I want an RZ67...

bvy

Alan Gales

film_man

mweintraub

M Carter

Kyle M.

Alan Gales

TheFlyingCamera

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mweintraub

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arealitystudios

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Stephen Prunier

mweintraub

Mainecoonmaniac

bvy

pthornto

M Carter

EdSawyer

TooManyShots

juan

Mainecoonmaniac

I think I want an RZ67...

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