I really stepped in it this time!

Well gang the learning curve is heading near vertical. I thought this Black-and-White-thing was going to be easy...well at least simple, you know, where 18% gray is gray not 005Y+020M+000C (in a previous incarnation I did Cibachromes).

I have come to find that B&W papers are not created equal, some are endowed by their creator to favor the UV side, others favor the IR side and my enlarger of choice is the Beseler Minolta 45A, xenon source, which brings me to my dilemma.

I have at my immediate disposal (quite literally) 11 different Kodak RC papers.
Panalure Select FM/Glossy
Panalure II Fm (8.5" x 11")
Polymax Fine Art ND
Polycontrast Rapid II F
Polycontrast III Fm
Polycontrast III Nm
Kodabrome II F, F2, F3, F4, and F5

I've read many of the Kodak publications but they really do not tell me what I want to know.
Do any of these papers (really) perform better with a xenon or other cold source?
In your opinions are any of these papers worth "saving for later?" Any keepers or are they all dogs? If so which is the best/worst?
Panalure: color negs to b&w prints?? They did that back then? Why? And is it good enough for making B&W contact/proofs? I was going to use the Panalure II to proof my negatives, just because of the odd size.

So you see where I'm at, with Cibachrome I only had two choices, Pearl or Glossy. I know things are not going to get any better any time soon. I still need a schoolin' on graded papers, contrast control, etc...and that's just on the dry side, so let's not go there just yet.

Thank you for your response(s).

Terry

I presume your learning curve has time of learning on the vertical axis and looks like the characteristic curve of underdeveloped film. Good luck. I see a comparison test in your future. I'll bet you get about as many different answers as responses.

With variable contrast papers, the contrast will vary somewhat with spectrum of the light source. That is, of course, what makes them variable contrast. Bromide papers can be developed to somewhat different contrast according to time of development. Generally, paper is developed to completion. Jerking the print out of the tray when you think you have what you want seldom works well unless it happens to be completely developed at thaat time. Neither does developing beyond completion in hopes of picking up just a little more shadow density. Some keep some very high contrast developer handy to sponge on try to do just that, and it may be worth a try if it's your last piece of paper. If you live long enough, you will learn all the useful and futile techniques for pushing and pulling.

A good many of the papers at your disposal are no longer made, so be careful not to get too attached to them.

I think all the papers at his disposal, at least those that he listed are nolonger made.

jd callow said:

I think all the papers at his disposal, at least those that he listed are no longer made.

Click to expand...

JD; That's a fact but I have a couple-thousand-plus sheets of the stuff, like an unopened 250-sheet box of Panalure II. Good learning fodder, I just don't want to burn through something that might be "good-stuff."

And believe me I have been reviewing the expired paper threads, which have given me hope for this expired lot.

gainer; Thanks for the push/pull technique, but I'm just not "there" yet.

If i recall correctly Panalure II is for printing colour negs to black and white.

jd callow said:

If i recall correctly Panalure II is for printing colour negs to black and white.

Click to expand...

jd; Yes I read that in a Kodak publication, I was curious as to why, in my head it didn't make a lot of sense, why not use B&W film to start with. I guess whatever the need was it justified making a special paper.

jd callow said:

I think all the papers at his disposal, at least
those that he listed are nolonger made.

Click to expand...

And I feel bad about Freestyle dropping Arista Classic FB.
I've most of a 25 sheet pack left. Kodak no longer makes
B&W papers, RC or FB. Dan

Well I guess another option is to forget the whole mental exercise and just start burning paper, whatever is on top of the stack goes first. Developer is cheap and the paper is even cheaper. If the paper is wrong, well I'll know soon enough.

Let me have the panalure please

Iwagoshi said:

jd; Yes I read that in a Kodak publication, I was curious as to why, in my head it didn't make a lot of sense, why not use B&W film to start with. I guess whatever the need was it justified making a special paper.

Click to expand...

Yes. Back in the days b.d. (before digi) we shot weddings on color neg film, but needed to provide 2 5x7 B&W glossy prints to the local paper for the wedding announcement. Rather than take the extra time to shoot a roll of B&W just for that, we picked the appropriate neg and printed on Panalure. It was not too uncommon to do color portraits and have a customer come back and ask for B&W prints for some publication. At least this sort of thing happened often enough to justify producing the paper.

Bob

Lopaka said:

Yes. Back in the days b.d. (before digi) we shot weddings on color neg film, but needed to provide 2 5x7 B&W glossy prints to the local paper for the wedding announcement. Rather than take the extra time to shoot a roll of B&W just for that, we picked the appropriate neg and printed on Panalure. It was not too uncommon to do color portraits and have a customer come back and ask for B&W prints for some publication. At least this sort of thing happened often enough to justify producing the paper.

Bob

Click to expand...

Ok, I can see that. Bob, thank you for the explanation.

But remember, ya got to work with the Panalure without the safe lights on. Should be no problem for an old Ciba user!

Vaughn

keithwms said:

Let me have the panalure please

Click to expand...

Keith, this afternoon I was at Photographers Supply in San Francisco--I have to give these folks a plug because they really need the business--where I perused a copy of the "Ilford Multigrade IV RC Deluxe" technical publication, you know the one with the portrait of Picasso, by Arnold Newman, on the cover. I came across a section illustrating how Multigrade IV can be printed from color negatives. The results were impressive, I finally "get it." Unfortunately Keith, I think I'll keep the Panalure and give it a shot with Portra or Ultra. The section also explained how the paper was specially formulated to deal with the orange backing on developed color film so assuming that Panalure is similar to Multigrade IV, I don't think I'll use it for proofing B&W film. So it goes to the bottom of the stack.

Vaughn said:

But remember, ya got to work with the Panalure without the safe lights on. Should be no problem for an old Ciba user!

Vaughn

Click to expand...

Safe lights?? What are those??
One of my biggest fears was slicing off a finger while subdividing 16x20 Cibas into 8x10 test prints...in complete blackness.

Thanks for the heads up, all my processing will be done in a Jobo CPP2.

Terry

Terry, the big difference with panalure paper as opposed to ordinary B&W paper with colour negatives, is that panalure paper can see across virtually the whole spectrum of your colour neg.

Using a VC paper you will find the blue colours in your negative, more or less appear as white, or very light in your print.

You can use a safelight with this paper, a perusal of Kodak's website should show which one and how.

Mick.

Iwagoshi said:

Unfortunately Keith, I think I'll keep the Panalure and give it a shot with Portra or Ultra.

Click to expand...

So, no panalure for me

Ok. Incidentally my interest in panalure is for shooting directly to paper, not for enlarging colour negs. Other current options are oriental hyper seagull and ilford rc digital.

Mick Fagan said:

Terry, the big difference with panalure paper as opposed to ordinary B&W paper with colour negatives, is that panalure paper can see across virtually the whole spectrum of your colour neg.

Using a VC paper you will find the blue colours in your negative, more or less appear as white, or very light in your print.

You can use a safelight with this paper, a perusal of Kodak's website should show which one and how.

Mick.

Click to expand...

Thanks Mike, found the pub, #g27.
"For critical applications, use a KODAK 13 Safelight Filter (amber) in a suitable safelight lamp with a bulb of 7 1/2 watts or less at least 1.2 metres (4 feet) from the paper."

Terry

keithwms said:

Incidentally my interest in panalure is for shooting directly to paper, not for enlarging colour negs. Other current options are oriental hyper seagull and ilford rc digital.

Click to expand...

Keith,
Interesting application. Any results worth showing? Once upon a time I considered shooting direct-to-Cibachrome pin-holes.
Terry

Browsing other threads I found some love for Polymax FA and Kodabrome, so those goes to the bottom of the pile leaving Polycontrast on top. Better get a jar of Benzotriazol, just hope I don't need to use it.

Terry