I've not done a lot of reading yet, but the section on dry plate collodion doesn't seem right to me, and oddly it also leaves out wet plate (ambrotype and tintype are not the only wet plate processes; one can make negatives for instance as well).
With projects like these, one of the key challenges is structuring the work along a robust conceptual framework. What is your core on this?
A lot of work
is the dry-plate info wrong, or badly worded?
There's such a thing as 'dry plate', which in practice mostly means gelatin-based 'dry' emulsions. There's also such a thing as collodion, which in practice is virtually always wet plate, since collodion dry plate just wouldn't work very well (although attempts have been made; AFAIK they were usually not very satisfactory). This is in part (or perhaps entirely) why silver-halide systems are currently gelatin-based, as this did work for a dry formulation. Thus, while dry plate is not necessarily synonymous with gelatin and collodion is not necessarily synonymous with wet plate, collodion and gelatin are in fact mutually exclusive. The silver halide is either suspended in gelatin, or collodion, or another suitable carrier - like indeed albumen, although I'm not myself familiar with recording systems based on albumen (as opposed to printing processes where albumen is the carrier). So I'd split it out, distinguishing:dry-plate collodion (alternative photo process)
Both ambrotypes and tintypes can be produced with an alternative collodion silver emulsion consisting of gelatin or albumen (egg white), which can be pre-coated and allowed to dry. The emulsion tends to be significantly slower than the wet-plate variant.
Okay, I understand. Without wanting to be normative, I feel that's at the same time an advantage as well as a missed opportunity. The advantage is that it seemingly simplifies creating the repository; just put everything where you feel like it fits. The missed opportunity will manifest itself sooner or later (and I think sooner; see e.g. the example above) because there are plenty of opportunities to categorize this vast field - and without doing so, you will inevitably end up with a (lack of) structure that's impossible to navigate with confidence. In other words - people won't find what they're looking for even if you went through the effort of putting it up there.The site is just my personal notes on "darkroom experimentation" expanded to be a bit more visually appealing, so no particularly strong intent.
Most of the techniques and processes (I'd distinguish between the two; see also above) I see on your page are to the best of my knowledge fairly well or even very extensively documented. One resource that you also extensively refer to is alternativephotography.com, which furthermore contains numerous links to additional literature in many of its articles. That's just one strand; if you look at the overall literature, online articles, forum posts and old mailing list archives, you'll find that there's a treasure trove of information on many of the things you briefly touch upon.unusual printing techniques, in part because they are so under-documented
The way I read it, it's wrong as it confuses a number of things, starting with the title. Here's what it says:
There's such a thing as 'dry plate', which in practice mostly means gelatin-based 'dry' emulsions. There's also such a thing as collodion, which in practice is virtually always wet plate, since collodion dry plate just wouldn't work very well (although attempts have been made; AFAIK they were usually not very satisfactory).
In other words - people won't find what they're looking for even if you went through the effort of putting it up there.
Most of the techniques and processes (I'd distinguish between the two; see also above) I see on your page are to the best of my knowledge fairly well or even very extensively documented. One resource that you also extensively refer to is alternativephotography.com, which furthermore contains numerous links to additional literature in many of its articles. That's just one strand; if you look at the overall literature, online articles, forum posts and old mailing list archives, you'll find that there's a treasure trove of information on many of the things you briefly touch upon.
On some techniques and processes, documentation is indeed poor. The example technique you mentioned is indeed one I never heard of, although it seems straightforward enough. Processes that are relatively poorly document are for instance the woodburytype and the autochrome process, although recent advances by dedicated enthusiasts (also reported here on Photrio) have started to fill this particular void quite effectively.
So at this point I would offer for consideration to you to decide what your project is really about and what ambition it has, and then structure and pursue it accordingly. In doing so, I would also recommend taking stock of similar endeavors that have already been undertaken, and asking the question whether it's feasible to contribute to those, and/or if they leave systematic gaps that can be filled in no other way than building a new repository from the ground up.
Careful; in the formulation you're now running the risk of unnecessarily complicating things.It doesn't seem like the terms for dry plates are very clearly defined... is a dry emulsion on darkened glass still an ambrotype, or is it a separate thing?
Or emulsion on film, or a ceramic material, or metal...they're all emulsion-on-plate instead of emulsion-on-paper.
Okay, so the emphasis is on variety and not on depth. Your present layout certainly suits the purpose and brevity within the categories would be preferable. The question is whether, given the vast number of possibilities, it's feasible / productive to try and keep it all on one page. It will be a very, very big page that's very complicated and difficult to navigate, even if you keep entries short.Thus, an important part of the design is that it's a single page.
Yep, that would be an inclusion problem and I think those will be tricky to resolve. Autochrome would have been firmly excluded up to 10 years ago or so because nobody knew exactly how to do it. Currently it would probably have to be included because it was in a way rediscovered. So is exclusion based on lack of information a good criterion? I guess that depends. If you only want to include things that can be reproduced cookbook-style, then yes.I only want things that can be practically done today, and "practical" is pretty hard to define.
Of course, the term 'portal' implies that it's a gateway to other sources of information and I definitely see a lot of added value in that. The project could essentially be a linktree with a little explanation to go with each group of links. That would IMO fill a niche that's currently not very well covered, at least not to the best of my knowledge.You used "portal", which is maybe a better word.
Okay, so the emphasis is on variety and not on depth. Your present layout certainly suits the purpose and brevity within the categories would be preferable. The question is whether, given the vast number of possibilities, it's feasible / productive to try and keep it all on one page. It will be a very, very big page that's very complicated and difficult to navigate, even if you keep entries short.
Currently it would probably have to be included because it was in a way rediscovered. So is exclusion based on lack of information a good criterion? I guess that depends. If you only want to include things that can be reproduced cookbook-style, then yes.
Of course, the term 'portal' implies that it's a gateway to other sources of information and I definitely see a lot of added value in that. The project could essentially be a linktree with a little explanation to go with each group of links. That would IMO fill a niche that's currently not very well covered, at least not to the best of my knowledge.
Given the nature of the project, I would consider some kind of wiki-like approach that allows (almost) direct editing by the community. You'd probably have to work in a system of approval or redaction to avoid abuse etc. and also to keep things sufficiently short. But I think it would benefit from including the knowledge of everyone instead of relying on just one person to have to prepare all the content.
I'm here to plug my new (non-commercial) reference site and ask for help from the community. The site is my quick notes and bookmarks on the unusual, experimental, and surreal side of darkroom work. It covers a bit of the whole spectrum, but darkroom printing is both what I really wanted to focus on, and where it's lacking the most detail.
site: Scratched Emulsion
If you'd like to help, I'm looking for any of:
Several of the sections relate to techniques I've heard about of seen before, but couldn't find any references when searching. I'm probably just using the wrong terms, but I would appreciate it if you have any leads for references for those empty sections. I'm sure a lot of it is lurking here in Photrio...
- new techniques that aren't already listed
- more example photos for the existing sections (must have a copyright grant for sharing)
- more reference/example links for the sections that have few
- proof reading
I hope it's of use to someone!
Very cool, is it ok to put this up on my FB page?
How about Carbon Transfer, and the Ferroblend process? Need examples?
For your reference to find more content that may interest you, I’ve put together some Non-Silver Imaging Systems based on some industry and academic books
Of course, share it far and wide
Yep, thanks, I'll probably add both of these. Both seem to have plenty of references, but they're probably too rare to have any Creative Commons-licensed images.
If you (or anyone else) have sample images that you're willing to license for non-commercial + non-modified sharing, I'd love those for any of the sections that are low on sample images.
Nice! I'll have a look through all of these myself. Most of them are probably a bit too far from the "practical darkroom" theme for this site, but not necessarily.
Thanks!
No clue how to license my images.
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