I need help, I want to design a 3D development tank. trusted .

mohmad khatab · Sep 16, 2022

Hello dear friends..
I am looking for a simple upgrade tank design with or without a reel (includes plastic tape similar to Russian tanks)... I want it to have the ability to upgrade 35mm as well as 120mm.

My main goal is to print a simple tank at a fraction of the cost in order to help young photographers obtain simple home development tools.

I had obtained this design and I hoped it would work, but unfortunately there was a defect in the design, or perhaps there is some problem in the design that I do not know.. and the printing failed for one reason or another, and when I returned to the site that I brought From it the design, I found that the design does not exist, the owner of the design may have removed it..
I hope to get some advice on this matter. I will be very grateful for all opinions,

Roll 35mm Film Container Stock Photo 130429559 | Shutterstock

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I found this wonderful design, but the problem is that this design is not free, and in fact I do not have a visa or any way to buy online.
Is there any way to get this design for free?

peoplemerge · Sep 16, 2022

I don’t know of any, but I’d encourage you to try designing it yourself. Use a student/personal copy of Fusion 360.

Hilo · Sep 17, 2022

Combina made a small developing tank for both 135 and 120 film. They also made a tank for two 135 reels or one 120 reel. And they made a tank for five 135 reels or three 120 reels. I have them all and the second (2 reels 135 or 1 reel 120) is my favourite.

Great system that I began using in the later seventies, and still use. These tanks come with a seperate loader that one clips onto the reel. The essence of this loader is that the film is attached to the center of the reel and rolls up to the outside of the reel. Very easy procedure when you know what you're doing.

The design you show looks very solid and strong. That is a plus, but to me not essential. Some of the tanks of the past, Combina included, have a more fragile design. But I have never broken anything. Film developing, including loading, is a matter of being careful and concentrated.

mohmad khatab · Sep 17, 2022

peoplemerge said:
I don’t know of any, but I’d encourage you to try designing it yourself. Use a student/personal copy of Fusion 360.

Thank you for your encouraging words, God bless you.
In fact, I did not find any free design, and this design, which I felt was a strong and practical design, unfortunately I did not find a free version of it..
The problem is that I do not have any electronic payment method in light of the economic conditions in which we live in Egypt. I must have a current account in foreign currencies, so that the minimum balance during opening the account is a large amount.. These conditions do not apply to me, unfortunately. severe.

So I thought I would ask this question to my colleagues here, maybe I will find a friend who has some information about a site that has a link to a free design or something like that.

I cannot do a design myself, I am not an engineer or a designer, I do not have any experience in this matter at all.,.,, My relationship with the world of engineering design is the relationship between the sheep and the wolf, we are never on good terms.

Hilo said:
Combina made

I think I know that model you are talking about, I have a copy of its patent and its illustration (attached), but in order to convert those illustrations into engineering drawings suitable for the application of a 3D printing machine, this is something that needs an engineer And a genius designer.

And in the end, there is an obstacle that cannot be overlooked, which is that the use of that tank is supposed to be the user, the leader of the negative roll is outside the roll cassette, and this is difficult to make sure that it can be achieved by all users, the first of them being me.
Thank you for your interest, dear brother, may God bless you

Romanko · Sep 17, 2022

Sorry to hear about your problems. I have very limited experience with 3D printing but I remember having issues with building water-tight parts. You might need to seal the tank with epoxy or some lacquer to make it water-tight.

Is it possible to get second-hand tanks? They might be a cheaper/easier option. The ones built in the USSR could still be useable and might be easier to find in your part of the world compared to Patersons, AP, Jobo and the like.

thingiverse.com has several designs of tanks and reels but I am unable to access the site at the moment.

koraks · Sep 17, 2022

mohmad khatab said:
to print a simple tank at a fraction of the cost

Is that realistic? I don't know about material prices at your end, but around here, 3D filament isn't necessarily very cheap. For a development tank, you'd probably be printing with PETG. Given the volume and mass of a tank that is also sturdy enough to stand up to at least a few years of regular use, I'd estimate you may only about three tanks out of a 1kg roll of filament. The material cost where I live would be around €30-€35, so that would be at least €10 worth of filament alone.

Then there's the startup cost of acquiring the printer, and keep in mind that printing a design like a development tank keeps a printer busy for, well, what would it be - 24 to 36 hours or so? Forget about printing anything very thin-walled or filled with a honeycomb; due to sturdiness and light fastness requirements it'll have to be a solid object! So there's energy costs to account for as well. All this might not be much on a per-item basis, but it all adds up in the end. And like you pointed out, there's the issue of getting or making a design that works, and that works well. It's not trivial, that part, and undertaking the engineering effort yourself or having someone else do it incurs costs - either the opportunity cost of not being able to do other work in the same hours, or the out-of-pocket cost of paying someone to do it for you.

A quick google shows that a brand new Paterson tank fetches around € 30. If your 3D-printed tank manages to work at around half that cost, it's still not a massive improvement, and I can virtually guarantee you that the 3D printed item will not be as durable or as convenient to use as the Paterson. Mind you, I still have and sometimes use my dad's Paterson tank that he must have acquired at least 40 years ago. It still works and looks as if it was manufactured last year.

In the long run, your 3D printed tank will be very costly indeed, I believe. If you intend to make any meaningful volume, let's say 1000 tanks or more, I think it's probably going to be cheaper to farm out the production to an external party and have them make the call if it's worthwhile to dedicate a couple of cheap injection molding dies to it (the Chinese have pushed the cost of low-end dies down dramatically) or if they should have a battery of printers push out your items.

Romanko · Sep 17, 2022

Maybe, print reels first:

35mm Development Reel for Tanks by ls3d

This is a reel for 35mm film tank developing. Holds 36 exposure rolls for processing in tanks with a 1" center tube. The model includes two ball bearings, one on either side of the reel, to add traction to the film as it is loaded into the reel. Might be problematic using different...

www.thingiverse.com

Dual 120 or 127 Film Reel by rodsmith

Dual Film Reel This project is based on the 16mm Film Developing Reel (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4252926), which enables developing three rolls of 16mm film in a single spiral in a standard Paterson tank. My own goals are different, though, so I made some changes.... This design enables...

www.thingiverse.com

With the film on the reel, you can process it without a daylight tank (in complete darkness) using two suitable glass/stainless steel/plastic containers for developer/fixer (plus optional stop/wash). If you are careful you might even be able to process your film inside a large changing bag/tent.

mohmad khatab · Sep 17, 2022

Romanko said:
Sorry to hear about your problems. I have very limited experience with 3D printing but I remember having issues with building water-tight parts. You might need to seal the tank with epoxy or some lacquer to make it water-tight.

Is it possible to get second-hand tanks? They might be a cheaper/easier option. The ones built in the USSR could still be useable and might be easier to find in your part of the world compared to Patersons, AP, Jobo and the like.

thingiverse.com has several designs of tanks and reels but I am unable to access the site at the moment.

God bless you dear brother, thank you for your sympathy.
This site does not have an integrated form, the form I aspire to is not available on this site. God bless you.

koraks said:
In the long run, your 3D printed tank will be very costly indeed,

Thanks for your valuable participation.
- The price of plastic has become acceptable in Egypt now. There are currently cheap Chinese brands of very acceptable quality.. The reel is made of raw plastic approximately in the range of 15 euros.
- The cost of operating the printer is as follows: one gram for 1 Egyptian pound.

With regard to electricity, you are absolutely right, but in Egypt, we get electricity for free in different ways.
This is the reason why Egypt is the only country in the world that refuses to license electric cars in Egypt, because Egyptians can get electricity for free.

- In all cases, if we assume that the price of the tank printed by the 3D printer = the same price as the tank imported from Europe, we prefer to manufacture it locally in Egypt in order to avoid dealing with the customs authority that imposes exorbitant fees on any postal parcel even if It was empty, and to redeem any postal parcel required bribes and so on.

Romanko said:
With the film on the reel, you can process it without a daylight tank (in complete darkness) using two suitable glass/stainless steel/plastic containers for developer/fixer (plus optional stop/wash). If you are careful you might even be able to process your film inside a large changing bag/tent.

This is an idea that does not fit at all with the young amateur, who is a novice.
This is an idea that needs a photographer with great experience, and he must be a veteran who knows exactly what he is doing.
Personally, I've had some good experiences, but I doubt I can do what you're saying.

Brothers, dear colleagues.
I was one of the first people to use online purchases since 2004, when I was working in the State of Kuwait, and I had a Visa Card at that time and a reasonable balance in the bank.

Now the situation became different when I returned to Egypt, and buying online became very difficult and complicated, and obtaining a Visa Card is for the wealthy only, as the citizen must have a bank account with a balance in foreign currency, and this is not available to any ordinary citizen, Mostly it is available to businessmen only.

Please do not tell me any colleague, ((Go and buy online))...
Am I waiting for your advice?

Romanko · Sep 17, 2022

mohmad khatab said:
This is an idea that needs a photographer with great experience

Absolutely! Getting the film on the reel is enough challenge for a novice photographer.

mohmad khatab said:
This site does not have an integrated form, the form I aspire to is not available on this site

I am not quite sure what your mean here. The files on thingiverse are in STL format which is supported by most 3D-printing software (or could be easily converted from). If you mean the complete developing tank including the tank inself, lid, cap, column and reels there is another design here:

35mm developing tank by dwnickerson

35mm film developing tank.Should print in ABS or maybe PETG.Print with supports touching bed only.STEP file and Fusion file attached as well.

www.thingiverse.com

This one will definitely require sealing to be light- and water-tight. Epoxy with powdered char-coal as a filler would probably do the trick. I am not sure if it has a proper light-trap in the lid either. But could be a starting point.

There is also a 4x5 tank design that you might be able to modify for 135/120 format

4x5 single sheet daylight developing tank by Kapiness

This is 4x5 single sheet daylight developing tank. it requires 150ml of developer. You can easily load sheet in the dark bag and develop it at the daylight. For fixing and washing i recommend to use a small tray, its amazing to watch the fixing process on the light ! :D And you can be sure by...

www.thingiverse.com

Can you find someone who offers 3D-printing services in Egypt? The local guy that I use is a mechanical engineer/designer who runs a 3D-printing shop from his home. It would be great if you could find someone like him locally.

Your situation is very different from other members' here. Please be patient. Very few of us were in a situation where you could only rely on scarce locally-available resources. Good luck again with your project.

mohmad khatab · Sep 17, 2022

Romanko said:
Can you find someone who offers 3D-printing services in Egypt? The local guy that I use is a mechanical engineer/designer who runs a 3D-printing shop from his home. It would be great if you could find someone like him locally.

Your situation is very different from other members' here. Please be patient. Very few of us were in a situation where you could only rely on scarce locally-available resources. Good luck again with your project.

Thank you for your friendly response.
Yes, there are some young engineers who assemble 3D printing machines, just like assembling computers. You can specify the specifications you want to obtain before purchasing, and therefore the machine will be assembled with the specifications you want to obtain, and of course each level of specifications has its price,,

The one who wants to buy is mostly another young man who wants to get a printer in order to improve his monthly income and is mostly a student in the College of Engineering or Applied Arts,, He wants to work in any activity that generates some money in order to meet the expenses of studying and buying books And the lieutenants, clothes, and so on.

That young man then makes an advertisement on Facebook, and everyone who wants to print anything flocks to him.

This young man works from his room, which is inside his father's house. He does not pay taxes, rent, or salaries to employees. He can also obtain free electricity in different ways that only Egyptians know, and it is one of the secrets that I cannot reveal.

Thus, it can provide good service at very reasonable prices.

Hilo · Sep 18, 2022

mohmad khatab said:
"And in the end, there is an obstacle that cannot be overlooked, which is that the use of that tank is supposed to be the user, the leader of the negative roll is outside the roll cassette, and this is difficult to make sure that it can be achieved by all users, the first of them being me".

Here you speak about the Combina tank and I do not understand what you mean. What I do understand is you feel this tank is difficult to use. I have helped many people to use this system, from the early 1980ties. Grown ups, children, in groups or just indivudually. Nobody ever had any problem.

mohmad khatab · Sep 18, 2022

Thank you very much for your kind reply, God bless you.
In fact, I do not know what is meant by (Combina tank) is it a complete integrated tank or is it just a development reel only?
Maybe there is a misunderstanding on my part.

I want a complete design for a complete tank with all its contents, reel, tender, etc. (As I explained in this design,
From my point of view,
this design is very ideal and will be very successful, but the problem is that it is not a free design, and as I have already explained, I want a free design, so I do not have a tool to buy online.

Hilo · Sep 18, 2022

mohmad khatab said:
Thank you very much for your kind reply, God bless you.
In fact, I do not know what is meant by (Combina tank) is it a complete integrated tank or is it just a development reel only?
Maybe there is a misunderstanding on my part.

I want a complete design for a complete tank with all its contents, reel, tender, etc. (As I explained in this design,
From my point of view,
this design is very ideal and will be very successful, but the problem is that it is not a free design, and as I have already explained, I want a free design, so I do not have a tool to buy online.

If you are interested, I can post some pictures here of the Combina tank that will make anyone understand how it works.

mohmad khatab · Sep 18, 2022

Hilo said:
If you are interested, I can post some pictures here of the Combina tank that will make anyone understand how it works.

Yes sir..
I'm really interested in that..
God bless you

Hilo · Sep 19, 2022

I am in Europe. Maybe I get to it this afternoon. Otherwise it will be tommorow.

mohmad khatab · Sep 19, 2022

Hilo said:
I am in Europe. Maybe I get to it this afternoon. Otherwise it will be tommorow.

God bless you

Hilo · Sep 21, 2022

I have 8 pictures here of the Combina developing system and hope these pictures explain themselves. In their titles I give info. Questions: feel free to ask

mohmad khatab · Sep 21, 2022

Hilo said:
I have 8 pictures here of the Combina developing system and hope these pictures explain themselves. In their titles I give info. Questions: feel free to ask

This is very cool, my friend.
But how to get the engineering design of this wonderful tank?

Hilo · Sep 21, 2022

This design goes back to the 1970ties. They had different names: Combina, Gepe, Krause. Now and then they show up on the auction sites. I have no idea about design rights, but you should be able to find this out.

There are other nice systems too! I just wanted to show you this one as you did not seem to know what it was.

mohmad khatab · Sep 21, 2022

Hilo said:
This design goes back to the 1970ties. They had different names: Combina, Gepe, Krause. Now and then they show up on the auction sites. I have no idea about design rights, but you should be able to find this out.

There are other nice systems too! I just wanted to show you this one as you did not seem to know what it was.

thank you sir

I need help, I want to design a 3D development tank. trusted .

mohmad khatab

Roll 35mm Film Container Stock Photo 130429559 | Shutterstock

peoplemerge

Hilo

mohmad khatab

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Romanko

koraks

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Romanko

35mm Development Reel for Tanks by ls3d

Dual 120 or 127 Film Reel by rodsmith

mohmad khatab

Romanko

35mm developing tank by dwnickerson

4x5 single sheet daylight developing tank by Kapiness

mohmad khatab

Hilo

mohmad khatab

Hilo

mohmad khatab

Hilo

mohmad khatab

Hilo

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mohmad khatab

Hilo

mohmad khatab

I need help, I want to design a 3D development tank. trusted .

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