I need help from all you lith printers out there

ggriffi · Mar 15, 2006

How do you arrive at your exposure time for the paper? By that I am talking about, do you develop your test strip in lith developer, or do you use a different developer? It would seem to me to be counterproductive to waste the lith developer on that. On the other hand, I can see where you might want to develop your test strips in the lith developer. I have some PF 130 that I was going to use that to arrive at my exposure for the paper and then make a print in the lith developer. Does seem like the route to go, or as usually happens, am I missing something here?

g

Ray Heath · Mar 15, 2006

it seems non-sensical to me to not process the test strip in the lith developer

you won't be 'wasting' it, in fact lith developer needs to process paper and build up its effect so that the best prints will be the later ones

besides print exposure is tied to the effect the lith developer has on the particular paper

print exposure variation will vary the contrast in the print, as for most chemical based imaging - under expose and over develop increases contrast, over expose and under develop reduces contrast

Travis Nunn · Mar 15, 2006

Use regular developer for the test strip. The reason is you need to find what would be the correct exposure if you were going to make a regular print. Once you find that exposure time, you then over-expose the lith-print-to-be-paper 2-4 stops and then into the lith developer. For example, if the correct exposure for a normal print is 30 seconds, you would expose it 120 seconds if overexposing 2 stops (more time if you want to overexpose more than 2 stops). There is no exact science to this, you have to find what works for you. For me, 2 stops over works. Your results may vary.

dancqu · Mar 15, 2006

Ray Heath said:
... in fact lith developer needs to process paper
and build up its effect so that the best prints
will be the later ones.

That may be true for multiple prints put through
most or all of the usually used off-the-shelf or
Home-Brew lith developers.

If that were true of ALL lith developers I'd be out
of luck. My carbonated, sulfited, hydroquinone lith
formula is used one shot. Dan

Mateo · Mar 15, 2006

Ummm...this may be of no use to you whatsoever but I don't do any test strips with lith printing. A test strip processed in a regular developer will give you an idea of where to start with the lith exposure but guesstimation will get you there just as quick and easy. I'll admit that I've been doing this for about 12 years but it really didn't take long to get an eye for what's going on. It normally takes me 2 sheets to get the exposure where I want it and time/paper wise that's the same as doing a test strip.

I'm kinda curious about the one shot lith developer. The best colors I've been able to get were with some very used sauce.

Travis Nunn · Mar 15, 2006

I don't make my own lith developer, I use either Fotospeed or Maco. I add a little old brown to my fresh developer. This takes care of the issue of the developer needing to process some paper before yielding good prints.

If you're really interested in lith printing, Tim Rudman's book is a must-read. If you go to the APUG conference, you can sign up for one or both of his lith printing workshops (like me, whoo hoo!)

ggriffi · Mar 15, 2006

To all:

Thanks for the replies. While I don't have the "Lith Printers" book, I do have the "Masters Print" book which does include a chapter on lith printing. While re-reading that chapter he writes:

"Test prints in lith developer are more difficult than normal developer, as the (shadow controlled) snatch point will be different for each strip.... A simpler,faster method is to develop a test strip in normal developer to completion as usual. Add two to three stops and make a lith print"

Mateo, my printing skills kinda suck, so I guess that I will use the two developer (normal=test and lith=print) for now and maybe when I get a feel for it...

g

t_nunn said:
I don't make my own lith developer, I use either Fotospeed or Maco. I add a little old brown to my fresh developer. This takes care of the issue of the developer needing to process some paper before yielding good prints.

If you're really interested in lith printing, Tim Rudman's book is a must-read. If you go to the APUG conference, you can sign up for one or both of his lith printing workshops (like me, whoo hoo!)

Michael Kadillak · Mar 15, 2006

Hope this is not to ignorant a question but is there any lith film manufactured any more? It has been a very long time since I even considered using any.

Cheers!

ggriffi · Mar 15, 2006

Michael,

jandc

Dead Link Removed

Also, know that Ilford still makes it too.

g

kunihiko · Mar 15, 2006

I agree with Mateo.

Here is a couple of prints which I gave SAME exposure and different developing time.
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I don't think accurate exposure in normal printing makes something important for my style of lith printing.
I just need a ballpark, and my negas don't have that much variations.
It depends on your style, of course.

ggriffi · Mar 15, 2006

kunihiko said:
I agree with Mateo.

Here is a couple of prints which I gave SAME exposure and different developing time.
Dead Link Removed
Dead Link Removed
I don't think accurate exposure in normal printing makes something important for my style of lith printing.
I just need a ballpark, and my negas don't have that much variations.
It depends on your style, of course.

kunihiko,

I don't diagree at all with you or mateo. As I mentioned earlier my printing skills kinda suck, so for now, I am looking for the "ballpark" exposure time. As I re-read that chapter in Tim Rudman's book and looking at his examples it just felt to me that he is trying to get the exposure pretty close with a normal developer and the over exposing by 2-3 stops for the lith development.

g

Travis Nunn · Mar 15, 2006

I wouldn't say my printing skills suck, but I still prefer to use a test strip. I don't think exact exposure is necessary but I like to know that I'm in the neighborhood and for that, I use a test strip.

ggriffi · Mar 16, 2006

t_nunn said:
I wouldn't say my printing skills suck, but I still prefer to use a test strip. I don't think exact exposure is necessary but I like to know that I'm in the neighborhood and for that, I use a test strip.

Travis,

I am getting better, I think. I have recently started split grade printing, as well as using fiber paper. And the use of fiber is the difficult part for me right now. Anyway, just like you I just need to be in the ballpark and I will be fine, I think.

g

Travis Nunn · Mar 16, 2006

Once you get the hang of lith printing, you'll be hooked. Keep at it and you'll love the results.

kunihiko · Mar 16, 2006

Hi, Travis
I do not deny using a test strip. I just mean I don't use it for my work.

g: just my 2yen.
2 stops and 3 stops are big difference. Travis said 2 stops works for him, some would say 3 stops works. You maybe need to find somewhere for yourself and your paper/dev combo.
In lith printing, you need to expose for highlight, you can develop for shadow. Then, when finding a relationship between normal print and lith print, highlights would tell you the way to the ballpark.

Travis Nunn · Mar 16, 2006

The key to the whole lith printing thing is experimenting and finding what works best for you. It took me a long time testing different papers, different developer dilutions and exposure times to find the combination that worked for me.

dancqu · Mar 21, 2006

ggriffi said:
jandc

Dead Link Removed

Give www.valleylitho.com a look. Good selection.
Developers also. Any big city should have at least
one printers supply outlet. Dan

dancqu · Mar 22, 2006

Mateo said:
I'm kinda curious about the one shot lith developer.
The best colors I've been able to get were with
some very used sauce.

Mr. G. griffi and yourself have questions of
that one-shot lith developer I by happen chance
compounded. I'd not have done that were it not
for my minimalist methodology; least chemistry,
least solution volume.

Although not based on, it's component parts are
the same as Wall's Normal Hydroquinone and two
or three other three component lith developers.

I've been reviewing my records and prints from
a year and a half ago when I did the experiments.
I do all processing one-shot so of course the three
brews I tested were all used one-shot.

Now I think it possible that any lith developer might
be used one shot. I test my own brews to determine
the least chemistry needed. After all one use and
down the drain.

I have more to do in testing for minimums with my
brews. Mine are not ready for prime time but I may
soon have something for field testing.

To experiment with what you've got try high dilutions
and least workable solution volumes. With pre-wet
paper as little as 125ml will do an 8x10. Also, add
varying amounts of sodium carbonate to the
brew. That could, though, slow hydroxide
activated lith developers. Dan

dancqu · Mar 22, 2006

To experiment using least solution volumes use
flat bottom trays such as Cescos. As the developer
is used one-shot, only one tray is needed for processing.
A second tray may be used for holding if doing a few prints.

I dump the one-shot developer and pour in a shot of
A. Thio. fixer diluted 1:34 FB or 1:49 RC. For archival results
with one fix use no less than 250ml of solution on an 8x10 basis.
That is 7ml FB or 5ml RC of concentrate. As the fix is very dilute,
use a back-to-front right-to-left fold over method of agitation.

I feel safe working bare handed with a Wall's type lith
developer. Your Home Brews or off-the-shelf may require
other handling. Use Graded paper with it's higher light
levels and watch the action. Dan

I need help from all you lith printers out there

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