I miss APX 25

Mark J · Jun 4, 2024

Mark J said:
I did check my neg files but found that some APX25 shots I did in 2000 were developed in Perceptol 1+2 rather than PMK.
In the Hutchings book he suggests 11mins in standard PMK for 'N', but refers to 'Agfapan 25'. However I would think that by the mid-90's this would be APX 25, wouldn't it ?
There shouldn't be much speed drop from D-76, are you sure you'd use ISO 6 ?

Xkaes
I just found a 120 set from about 20 years ago that were APX25 in PMK.
Looking at the negs and the time noted, if I did some again I would use about ISO 16 or 20, and no more than 10mins at 70°C .

xkaes · Jun 4, 2024

Thanks. That's pretty much what I expected.

Do you consider APX25 and PMK a good match -- or is it simply "gilding the lily"?

Ian Grant · Jun 4, 2024

When I was half my current age I would backpack with my Wista 45DX 12 DDS film holdersvwith AP or APX100, a Wista 6x9 and AP or APX25 as back up. More than once I spent maybe 8 hours plus out shooting, I'd pace my self by using the roll film back where maybe the 6x9 format was more suitable.

Later projects were more urban, and I used the RF back less, but I was gutted when APX25 was discontinued. One of the chemicals in the emulsion was banned, and sales were already too low to recover any reformulating R&D.

Ian

Mark J · Jun 4, 2024

xkaes said:
Do you consider APX25 and PMK a good match -- or is it simply "gilding the lily"?

There is only light stain - less than on PanF+.
However it should still be of benefit, esp. on a small format, so I'd say give it a go.

xkaes · Jun 4, 2024

My understanding (which could be wrong) is that APX25 has a very thin emulsion -- which might explain the light stain that you mentioned.

I was especially interested in trying PMK with smaller formats -- half-frame down to Minox -- so your experience gives me encouragement. Now all I need to do is find the time. First, will be a few tests -- I've figured out a way to use my Pen F to make an easy test strip -- 14 half-frame exposures (of a gray card) contact printed on a 1x10" sheet of paper. Saves a lot of film & paper.

And it sounds like PMK will also work fine with Pan F should I ever run out of APX25 -- God forbid!!!

Mark J · Jun 5, 2024

I think it does have a thin emulsion. It looks great even to the eye ( I can focus to about 5" ! ) , checking those negs last night, I wish I had some in the freezer. There were a couple of shots with great shower clouds, they just looked liquid.

PMK with Pan F+ is one of those magic combinations, it took me a few years to realise that most of my best 120 shots were from this, it has great acutance, just can't cope with the highest brightness ranges.

xkaes · Jun 5, 2024

Mark J said:
PMK with Pan F+ is one of those magic combinations, it took me a few years to realise that most of my best 120 shots were from this, it has great acutance, just can't cope with the highest brightness ranges.

Does PMK help in this regard? From what I've read, it should.

Kodachromeguy · Jun 6, 2024

Mark J said:
I think it does have a thin emulsion. It looks great even to the eye ( I can focus to about 5" ! ) , checking those negs last night, I wish I had some in the freezer. There were a couple of shots with great shower clouds, they just looked liquid.

PMK with Pan F+ is one of those magic combinations, it took me a few years to realise that most of my best 120 shots were from this, it has great acutance, just can't cope with the highest brightness ranges.

I've only used Ilford Pan F once. It was on an overcast, misty day, perfect as per the warnings that it is contrasty. My results were great for those conditions. When I finally use the last of my Panatomic-X, I'll try more Pan F.

https://worldofdecay.blogspot.com/2021/03/another-film-treasure-ilford-pan-f-plus.html

(These are in Port Gibson, Mississippi).

Mark J · Jun 6, 2024

xkaes said:
Does PMK help in this regard? From what I've read, it should.

Yes it does, you can find detail lurking in the deepest highlights.

Mark J · Jun 6, 2024

Though having said that, I would still select FP4+ or TMax 400 in 120 format for wide brightness ranges.
My strip of APX25 negs looked fairly contrasty in PMK at 10.5mins, how did people who shot more of it find it, back in the day ?

xkaes · Jun 6, 2024

I've run across comments -- for years -- about LOW ISO film being HIGH contrast. Since I run my own tests to determine the ISO and development time for the C.I. that I want, I've never quite understood the "high contrast" opinions. Sure, I "over-expose" APX 25 at ISO 12, and "under develop", instead of taking AGFA's recommendation, but the C.I. comes out fine.

I've never tried Pan F, but I assume that it will be very similar.

Ian Grant · Jun 7, 2024

I never found AP or APX25 contrasty, I was always using it in my 6x9 back alongside 5x3 APX100, both at box speed and processed for the same time in either Rodina; or replenished Xtol, often in the same tank.

Pan F is quite different, needs careful controls.

Ian

xkaes · Jun 7, 2024

Yeah, "contrasty" is a relative term. Nice to know that there is currently enough interest in Pan F to keep it going -- even if it needs to be used "on a short leash". There must be something great about it.

Mark J · Jun 7, 2024

Yes, and on that note, I need to buy more. Going out with the Horseman VH tomorrow, I could only find one roll of Pan F+

Philippe-Georges · Jun 7, 2024

Ian Grant said:
I never found AP or APX25 contrasty, I was always using it in my 6x9 back alongside 5x3 APX100, both at box speed and processed for the same time in either Rodina; or replenished Xtol, often in the same tank.

Pan F is quite different, needs careful controls.

Ian

I found AGFAPAN wether as 25, 100 or 400 (which isn't really the same as Agfa APX 25, 100 and 400) showing some more 'spirit' in AGFA Refinal (replenished) than in Rodinal.
Refinal can be considered as Agfa's D-76, when looking a the results, and being a very flexible combo too.
I found Refinal being really good in pushing Agfapan 400 till around 2000ASA, giving a rather fine-to-small but pinpoint grain.

The AgfaPan 25 & Refinal combo was very good in the studio under (diffused-) halogen light and the Hasselblad (S-Planar 120mm), where I used it a lot for sculpture on table top. The bronze's and marble's tonalities came into their own very well.
But found it not as that good for (unglazed-) terracotta where I preferred AgfaPan 100. For glazed terracotta the AgfaPan 25 with a polarising filter was better, also onder halogen light.

The info below dates from the time when AgfaPAN got gradually replaced by AgfaAPX.

xkaes · Jun 7, 2024

I've always used home-made D-76 mostly to get as much speed as possible, and allowing the fine grain of the film do the rest. But now I'm thinking that using it with small formats might benefit for PMK despite the significant loss in speed.

I miss APX 25

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