I might be looking for a new camera (single exposure, fairly portable)

[TheYoungPretender]

I'd like to start this off by saying that I'm not completely sure whether I am actually looking for a new camera, if the best option would be a medium format one or if I might already have what I am looking for, just not realizing it.
Lately, I've had a bad streak buying things with broken shutters, bellows and so on and I'm just looking to get back into the groove of taking photos again without all of the issues that has presented themselves lately.

Now, I have a few cameras already, usable in different situations, however there is something that I feel I might still be looking for. I'm not completely sure whether it is a medium format camera or not but I would like your input to see whether this makes sense or not.

What I'm looking for is:
Something portable enough to bring with me without having to go by car, might it be for landscape or urban photography. While I don't mind bringing a monopod or a lighter cf tripod, I would like to avoid having to use the tripod all of the time, or having the bring my big aluminium gitzo.
I would very much like to be able to take & develop single shots, not having to finish a whole roll.
If possible being able to use lenses with a more traditional character would be nice. I'm not really chasing sharpness. Adaptability would be a big positive.
An intuitive workflow. Having a rangefinder, wlf or a way to not have to work with a gg would make things easier but is not a complete dealbreaker.
Having access to an instant back in the future would be a plus.
Being able to enlarge it on a MF enlarger is another positive.
Being modular/servicable enough to not have to just let it be if it needs a CLA.
Price: Ideally ~500Eur/USD or less

I've considered a couple of options such as:
A medium format SLR. I've been eyeing the RB67s or possibly the 645. They both have soft focus lenses available if I would like to try to use one. The RB67 should possibly (?) also work with graflex backs, giving it some flexibility. Mamiya also made sheet film holders if I remember correctly? Being an SLR, composition should be intuitive and I've seen some lenses adapted in compur/copal shutters although I imagine that would require you to flip the mirror to take the actual picture. Are there any well known issues with the bodies that you should be aware of other than the lubrication being dry and backs possibly having light leaks?

A medium format "press camera/rangefinder". Another option would be a crown/speed graphic, either in 2x3 or 4x5. The SG would allow the use of a wide array of barrel lenses. If the FP curtain is bad, you could use it as a heavier CG I assume. The CG could use most anything fitted in a shutter (that's not too long or too large to fit the lens board). You could possibly use it handheld with a calibrated lens/rangefinder combination. Is there a big upside to choosing the 2x3 compared to a lightweight 4x5?

Graflex RB - in any size, the laste one I received had a bad shutter curtain. Servicing/replacing those would cost a lot more than my budget would allow for. Other than that, the Series D seems ideal as it would allow me to use the LF lenses I already have. If money wouldn't have been an issue, the Smartflex is also looking good but it seems like a pretty high risk option unless it was bought newly serviced?

An older plate camera would mean not using a rangefinder at all but would be portable enough to be used handheld. The lens options are usually interesting and I wouldn't have to go out of my way to get something like a Bergheil. Condition could be an issue as they are older cameras? I've also had some issues with the thing plate holders being a little bit hard to work.

Am I missing an obvious option here? Any input? Maybe someone has been in a similar situation and made a choice they are happy with?

I have a couple of options to use that would not require buying a new camera. Do these make as much or more sense to use than getting something completely different?
I've got a 4x5 SG lacking the Kalart side-mounted rangefinder. Would it make sense to add one by buying the spare parts? The FP shutter works great and its usable with most any lens. The graflok back makes it a flexible option. While I've been able to use it on a lighter tripod, it doesn't instill a lot of confidence, especiall putting a heavier lens on. It's also not the easiest camera to move around.
Rollei TLR with the plate back. It's not a very flexible system and doesn't fill the whole sheet of film. It is a usable format however and it would be easy to cut down to fit in a smaller enlarger.

 

[aconbere]

The Plaubel Makina might be an interesting fusion option. With the II forward they had a coupled rangefinder. You can get ground glass and use them like a view camera. They had sheet film holders. And they pack down quite small for travel.

And the Anticomar 100/2.9 is something special.

 

[mshchem]

RB or RZ67 II, RZ67II has a left hand grip works great for field use. The 180mm soft focus lenses are cheap, you need the metal discs.

 

[TheYoungPretender]

@aconbere That's an interesting suggestion that I'll have to look into. The form factor is really appealing. I assume that you might need some patience to find a good one.

@mshchem I do like both the RB and the RZ although I might have some luck to find an RZ at a price that fits into my budget. The Imagon often being offered in Mamiya Mount also seems like a good thing since I enjoy using that for (at a longer FL) on Large Format cameras.

 

[xkaes]

The RB/RZ are great, but heavy. If you want to be able to use different lenses that's a great way to go.

If you want something lighter, and don't mind sticking to one lens, the there are several to choose from, such as the Plaubels (already mentioned), as well as Mamiya & Fuji rangefinders.

 

[Dan Fromm]

OP, if you want to use sheet film -- that's what taking a processing a single shot entails -- why did you mention roll film cameras? There are many press/technical cameras that accept sheet film holders. There are few roll film cameras that accept sheet film holders.

 

[Dustin McAmera]

The Century Graphic (sort of a baby crown graphic) has the Kalart RF (only calibrated for one lens at any time, and won't calibrate for lenses very far from standard length), and is light (the body is Mahoganite, a bakelite-like resin plastic) and compact when folded; and you can do ground-glass focusing with it if you want. Mine was made in 1962, by which time I don't think many people were using cut film in dark slides; so finding those (and cut 2x3 film to go in them) would be the hard bit. I have no idea what choice of film you will have in 2x3 sheets.
You can use roll holders instead when you want.

Myself, even when I shoot sheet film, I tend to think in sixes because that's what my daylight tank holds. I wouldn't start developing for one or two sheets.

 

[ic-racer]

Like Dan mentioned above. Just about any 'technical' camera with a sheet film back.

2x3 sheet film holders are easy to come by as not many use them these days. I recently got 5 brand new Liscos for my Horseman. That way I can load and use a whole pack of instax.

 

[aconbere]

@aconbere That's an interesting suggestion that I'll have to look into. The form factor is really appealing. I assume that you might need some patience to find a good one.

@mshchem I do like both the RB and the RZ although I might have some luck to find an RZ at a price that fits into my budget. The Imagon often being offered in Mamiya Mount also seems like a good thing since I enjoy using that for (at a longer FL) on Large Format cameras.

My experience with the Makinas is that the trouble of finding a cheap one

 

[abruzzi]

a VH-R with a couple of 2x3 graflocks works quite well. Its big and bulky but not all that heavy. The lenses are reletively small and light compared to, for instance, the lenses for my Fuji GL690.

 

[BrianShaw]

If you’d use your speed graphic once or twice, your requirements would get clarified quickly. As stated in post 1 they are a bit muddled.

 

[Paul Howell]

I have both a baby Speed and a Buschman, 2 1/4 X 3 1/4 with fixed sheet film backs. The Buschman has a rangefinder, the Speed has had it rangefinder removed along with the focal plan shutter. Of the 2 the Speed made out wood and stipped of the heavy focal plan shutter is lighter than the metal body Busch. I use a tripod with the Speed as I have to use the ground glass for focusing. When I hike I generally take the Busch as I handhold or use a monopod. The down side is that 2X3 sheet film is expensive, as expensive as a sheet of 4X5. I would pay extra for a Speed with a gralock back for either roll or sheet film.

 

[mshchem]

I have a couple top rangefinder Crown Graphic cameras, I only use the rangefinder with the standard 135mm 4 element lens. Works great handheld, produces brilliant huge negatives. TMY-2 and XTOL

 

[John Wiegerink]

The only cameras I used 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 sheet film in now is an old Kodak Reomar plate camera and the Kodak Medalist I or II that I have. It's the Medalist 97% of the time. I have GG backs and holder for my Rollei and Hasselblad cameras, but never use them for sheet film. The Medalist is superb for sheet film use, but there are no movements of course. Also, you have to respool 120 film onto spare 620 spools if you use roll film. I don't mind doing this at all and once you get the hang of it it's a breeze. For sheet film with the Medalist all you do is remove the original snap-on back and replace it with a calibrated, to your camera, ground glass snap-on back with folding hood and magnifier. I only use Kodak "grey" single sheet holders in mine and the negatives come out extremely sharp and flat. There are many cameras out there that would work for you, but for me this was my choice.

 

[TheYoungPretender]

Hi and thanks for all of your suggestions and reflections!

@Dan Fromm Including the M645 wasn't that great of an idea My bad!

@BrianShaw Great point! I tend to muddle things up. Thinking things through I do think that I might have made some progress and these are my thoughts right now. Using more exotic soft focus lenses such as the Imagon or my Verito would likely not make a lot of sense with a rangefinder camera like a graphic or a Horseman (in addition to the fact that they are too long to use with the press style cameras). My focus should probably be on another aspect that is important to me: choice! What I like about LF is the possibility to try new things, being able to try a modern lens in a shutter, a pillbox lens or an old project lens and not be too static. While a camera like a 2x3 speed likely would end up being used with a single lens most of the time, being able to throw it on a light(er)weight tripod and use the focal plane shutter is a good option to have and I assume that the Kalart rangefinder could be recalibrated, even if you wouldn't want to do that for every new sheet.
To get back to your point Brian: I believe that using the speed graphic has thought me a few things, mostly about the negatives of a setup like it. I'm missing the option to just put it in a bag (I do love the option to be able to lock it in place with a smaller lens in place) with a couple of holders, or my grafmatic, and be more spontaneous. Unfortunately, that hasn't really been an option since handholding it, using the gg to focus, then trying to push the film holder in while not moving the camera proved to be a bit of a chore.

@ic-racer I've looked into that option as well and it seems interesting! Would you use a carrier sheet to hold it in place in the 2x3 holders or does it fit as it is? I also have the possibility to cut down film under IR illumination which could help with having some more options.

The Mamiya is still a good contender as well, although it would require a bit more work to get the lenses on what I would guess would have to be a helicoid and some tubes/adapters - would I want to look at other options than the Mamiya lenses (and would it possibly cause any problems with triggering the shutter? I assume that you could just use a cable release on the lens and move the mirror? The Graflex film holders would also fit the Mamiya back if I'm correctly informed? Maybe adding an RB67 could be an option in the future and the same holders/grafmatics/roll film backs could be used for both cameras were I to find one with a graflok back?


@John Wiegerink I appreciate you sharing your experiences! While I'm not sure that it really fits these needs, I've always enjoyed the look of the Medalist. I might very well look into getting one in the future, especially knowing that it offers the option to use sheet film.

 

[Dan Fromm]

OP, there are cut film holders for the Mamiya Universal. I haven't checked but expect that they'd work for other cameras in the Mamiya Press family. Go find the manuals and educate yourself about them. Adapting randomly selected lenses to them is probably difficult.

I can't speak for about other press/technical cameras, but 2x3 Pacemaker Graphics have tubular viewfinders that accept masks for various combinations of focal length and format. They have parallax adjustment for focused distance. And the cameras have wire frame viewfinders too. Focus on the gg and compose is an option with them. As for randomly selected lenses, focal lengths from 35 mm (35/4.5 Apo-Grandagon with Century or 2x3 Crown) to 250 mm (a tele) will work. The shortest lens I'm aware of that will cover 2x3 and make infinity on a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed is the 58/5.6 Grandagon. 58/5.6 and 60/5.6 Hexanons for KoniOmega and Omegaflex (name?) can be reshuttered and will also work on a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed. The shortest lens I know of that will work on a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed is the 1.75"/2.8 Elcan as fitted to Vinten F.95 cameras, but it covers only 2.25 x 2.25.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Hi and thanks for all of your suggestions and reflections!

@Dan Fromm Including the M645 wasn't that great of an idea My bad!

@BrianShaw Great point! I tend to muddle things up. Thinking things through I do think that I might have made some progress and these are my thoughts right now. Using more exotic soft focus lenses such as the Imagon or my Verito would likely not make a lot of sense with a rangefinder camera like a graphic or a Horseman (in addition to the fact that they are too long to use with the press style cameras). My focus should probably be on another aspect that is important to me: choice! What I like about LF is the possibility to try new things, being able to try a modern lens in a shutter, a pillbox lens or an old project lens and not be too static. While a camera like a 2x3 speed likely would end up being used with a single lens most of the time, being able to throw it on a light(er)weight tripod and use the focal plane shutter is a good option to have and I assume that the Kalart rangefinder could be recalibrated, even if you wouldn't want to do that for every new sheet.
To get back to your point Brian: I believe that using the speed graphic has thought me a few things, mostly about the negatives of a setup like it. I'm missing the option to just put it in a bag (I do love the option to be able to lock it in place with a smaller lens in place) with a couple of holders, or my grafmatic, and be more spontaneous. Unfortunately, that hasn't really been an option since handholding it, using the gg to focus, then trying to push the film holder in while not moving the camera proved to be a bit of a chore.

@ic-racer I've looked into that option as well and it seems interesting! Would you use a carrier sheet to hold it in place in the 2x3 holders or does it fit as it is? I also have the possibility to cut down film under IR illumination which could help with having some more options.

The Mamiya is still a good contender as well, although it would require a bit more work to get the lenses on what I would guess would have to be a helicoid and some tubes/adapters - would I want to look at other options than the Mamiya lenses (and would it possibly cause any problems with triggering the shutter? I assume that you could just use a cable release on the lens and move the mirror? The Graflex film holders would also fit the Mamiya back if I'm correctly informed? Maybe adding an RB67 could be an option in the future and the same holders/grafmatics/roll film backs could be used for both cameras were I to find one with a graflok back?


@John Wiegerink I appreciate you sharing your experiences! While I'm not sure that it really fits these needs, I've always enjoyed the look of the Medalist. I might very well look into getting one in the future, especially knowing that it offers the option to use sheet film.

I understand completely. I guess I'm just a little confused when it come to your criteria for the "new" camera. If size really doesn't matter then by all means go for 4X5 over 2X3. If size maters, then look for something that gives you the biggest negative for the size of the camera footprint. All this considering the image quality you expect also. If I didn't care about negative size for smaller than 4X5 sheet film I wouldn't be using my Medalist at all. What would I be using? I'd be using my Hasselblad cameras with the ground glass adapter and sheet holders. You then have interchangeable backs, lenses and I can also use my great picture taker the SWC. Now, if I still had my RB67 it might be different, but I doubt it. When it comes to the choice of a speed graphic I would choose the 4X5 Crown or Super Speed 4X5. The 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 miniature speeds don't really save you that much in size and weight. I would pic 4X5 every time over 2X3 if all things were the same, but they're not of course.

 

[BrianShaw]

The advantage of 4x5 is a much broader choice of film than 2x3. Plus, there are plenty of affordable roll film backs.

There’s still just too many “desirements “ and not enough requirements to really provide meaningful guidance. Pick an immediate goal and don’t try to satisfy all potential future goals. But only if this is a serious question and not just a hypothetical thought exercise.

Good luck.

 

[Paul Howell]

OP, there are cut film holders for the Mamiya Universal. I haven't checked but expect that they'd work for other cameras in the Mamiya Press family. Go find the manuals and educate yourself about them. Adapting randomly selected lenses to them is probably difficult.

I have a back for my press, the film holder is single sided and it is 6X9, 2 1/4 by 3 1/4 does not fill well. 6X9 sheet film is even more expensive than 2 1/4 X 3 1/4, and only one emulsion, last time I looked, well in the U.S market. But with a number of film holders it is very doable. The other downside is that the Press and later Universals are heavy. The reason I use sheet film in my baby Speed is that I can use the Zone System.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I inherited a Mamiya C3 with three lenses and a Porroprism. I never got comfortable with it and traded it in for a Hasselblad 503 CX and a prism. I highly recommend Hasselblad V Series, but not the 200 Series or the 2000 Series, because lenses, parts and services are readily available. The same could not be said for Rollei even though some of there Rollei SLR features are enviable.

 

[bdial]

The total would be more than your target budget, but there are single exposure backs for Hasselblad. You would need to cut down sheets of film though.
On the plus side the camera is quite compact with the sheet back vs a roll film back.

 

[John Wiegerink]

The total would be more than your target budget, but there are single exposure backs for Hasselblad. You would need to cut down sheets of film though.
On the plus side the camera is quite compact with the sheet back vs a roll film back.

Yes, I hate cutting sheet film so that's one BIG drawback for me anyway. I actually like the Rolleiflex way with their back and holders.

 

[TheYoungPretender]

@John Wiegerink That's fair. I've probably been a little bit unclear. Size isn't really the issue by itself. I travel a lot by public transport and I am looking for something, ideally, that could be put into a larger shoulder bag and be used without a large tripod on those occasions. Furthermore, I do plan to carry it in a bag and not around my neck most of the time so I don't really mind the difference between a 3.5 or a 6lb camera. I have however tried hand holding my current speed graphic and it is a little bit on the heavy side - but it is also hard to tell since I more or less have to emulate how it would be to use it with a rangefinder. My reason for focusing on medium format options was that it seemed more likely to find a compromise that would work, in a smaller format, under my budget.

@BrianShaw My bad! I've taken some time tonight to further distill my list of requirements/desirements. I've tried some of the options (or rather tried trying, but they have all arrived broken from the bay), In an ideal world, I would have the funds to get either a Mentor Reflex, Graflex Series/Super D 4x5, An Auto Graflex or one of the new Smartflex SLRs. They are light enough to where I could carry them around and they would allow me to use my favourite lenses (the Verito, Imagon, my old French lenses and so on) without having to guesstimate what kind of results that I would get since they are SLRs. I realize that there still are compromises such as a limit to what backs can be used, the size of the lens boards, and the focal length ranges supported, even if I were able to buy one of these cameras.
Based off this desire, and my budget, I would say that my goal is to find something that:

• I can afford
• That can use lenses other than the "system lenses", preferably barrel lenses
• That I can use with sheet film if I want to
• That can be carried around in a large-ish shoulder bag and used without a tripod
• That I could preferably use to compose the shot and pre-visualize the results (i.e. not strictly a rangefinder)
• That is fairly reliable

I realize that I likely have to make some compromises. There is the option of a smaller (3x4 since they are fairly simple to convert to Graflok) Graflex RB. The Series D which I guess would accomodate lenses in the 6-8" range or the Auto Graflex which would take lenses ~8-12" but apart from that could be a good option, was it possible to get one with a good shutter. Another downside (that I could live with) is the lack of a neck strap. The same could probably be said for a Mentor Reflex (as they are more common here in Europe) but I seldomly find them serviced and the construction seems to be a bit more intricate.
The RB67 has some interesting lens choices that aren't mamiya lenses. It is in comparison to the Graflex fairly compact and more reliable (since it is newer) and easier to find replacement parts for locally. The compromise would be lens selection, since you would have to cobble something together to use unshuttered lenses and non mamiya-mounted lenses. You would also have to flip the mirror prior to taking the picture which would be an additional step and possibly add some movement.
There is also the Rittreck/Optika II which seems like a mix of the Mamiya and the Graflex. It has the same small size (80mm) lens boards that a baby graphic/a smaller graflex slr would use but would be slightly more modern and possibly a bit more compact. Finding a nice, working condition one does seem like a challenge. The bellows would also likely limit the FL that I could use.
Finally there's the option of handholding a Horseman/Graphic in either size. The Speed would allow me to use a wider selection of lenses, but would be heavier than a Crown/Century which might cause some handling problems. Using the rangefinder should work well but would be slightly limited as mentioned by previous posters. It's unclear how well I'd be able to use it, were I to use the ground glass to focus, insert the film holder, and then take the picture. It's also unclear how much this would differ between say a 2x3 crown and a 4x5 speed. I have tried it out before and tend to get a lot of movement inserting the film holder. Maybe adding a flash bracket/grip could make it a bit more stable than using just the side strap? I could possibly try that with the stripped 4x5 speed that I already own.

Have I missed something? Maybe there isn't a clear cut option? I feel like I've been able to remove quite a few of the ones listed in the original post.

 

[pbromaghin]

Any Mamiya C series and 3-4 lenses. Zeiss or Voigtlander folder.

All of the above are wonderful cameras and won't break the bank.

 

[250swb]

Am I missing an obvious option here? Any input?

You list of 'wants' is pretty much cancelled out by your list of 'nots'. As in, you are looking at a super heavy RB67 and don't want to use a tripod, which I don't think is realistically possible if you want to reliably take full advantage and use fine grain film.

Medium or large format is a slower way of working. So assuming you already have a 35mm camera slow down with that first and see if it suits you. Get some super fine grain slow film, use a tripod, use the lenses you have at their optimum apertures, use a cable release for vibration free exposure, etc. get some ND filters for long exposures, and you are almost three quarters of the way to a medium format way of working and getting excellent quality negatives. If it's simply equipment doubt you are suffering and need some inspirational fun put a different film in your 35mm camera, something like infrared and slow down with that (because you will definitely need a tripod), or rate a fast film at 3200 ISO and go all out for the grain.

If you enjoy the pace of slowing down, contemplating the scene, adjusting your tripod an inch to the left or right, and waiting for a cloud to come along, or a gust of wind to die down, you will enjoy medium format. You may also enjoy slowing down with the cameras you already have. But ultimately I think the type of camera your GAS is searching for will become self evident whether it's large or medium format.