I may never do street photography

Colin Corneau · Aug 13, 2019

At the risk of sounding like a fuddy-duddy, I put this hysteria and mean-spiritedness squarely on the influence of social media.

Social media has indoctrinated our society to think they are the centre of the universe and that every passing brain fart is on par with Einstein and Hawking. There is an undeniable 'chicken coop' mentality now, where a frenzy of violence is unleashed at the first hint of blood. We are all isolated behind our phones (and if you think it's bad with adults, just have a look at 12-30 year olds now) and the entire world is a tiny screen...no wonder people see other human beings as just things. It's not a problem to attack and demonize a thing, is it?

I've certainly seen a difference over the past decade or two in terms of the overall mood. I still photograph in public and haven't had a problem -- but the change is evident. People are *miserable* and just looking for a reason to BE miserable. I get it -- I spend more than 5 minutes on any social media platform I feel like sh!t myself.

The worrisome part, I think, is what we lose by isolating ourselves. We lose art, first of all...think of the great images by Winogrand, Meier, Meyerowitz, and so many more. Now think of them being deleted...that's what social media trains people to do.
We lose connectedness -- actual, human interaction -- in favour of the false, sterile faux-connectedness of algorithms that exist only to sell us ads.
We lose empathy and good will -- instead, we get meanness, suspicion and anger.

Not a world I want to live in. I can't help but think in future decades, we'll look back on this era the same way we look back on a society that advertised cigarettes to pregnant women and spraying DDT everywhere..."what were they THINKING?!??"

nmp · Aug 13, 2019

MattKing said:
(Irony alert on)
Yeah - Vivian Maier's subjects were so much more elegant.

(Irony alert off)

+1

or may be he was being sarcastic?

jim10219 · Aug 13, 2019

Meh. I've almost gotten shot by paranoid farmers and arrested on false charges by a corrupt sheriff doing landscape photography. I also have had several instances where people tried to steal my gear, sometimes even while on vacation in expensive touristy areas. I even have a friend who was accused to sexual harassment doing portrait photography and it nearly ruined his business until the model started accusing other photographers of the same and other models vouched for his professionalism (though to be honest, I wouldn't put it past him).

My point is, if you leave the house, things can happen. Try not to worry about what CAN happen, and focus on what is LIKELY to happen. Risk management is all about practicality, not hysterics. So one person's story is just that. A story. It's not indicative of a trend. Besides, good art always requires risk and sacrifice. Guernica almost got Picasso killed. Ai Weiwei was arrested for his art with an anti Chinese government bend (under the false pretense of tax evasion). Even Michelangelo, Caravaggio, and Rembrandt ruined their careers following their own visions that society deemed too provocative, yet those works are today considered masterpieces.

Risk nothing, gain nothing.

StepheKoontz · Aug 13, 2019

If you don't truly understand what you are photographing on the street, you probably shouldn't be taking the shot. And I do understand when participants are at a fair or an event as observers, them not wanting pictures taken where they are the subject without their knowledge. If some guy is going around focusing on taking of pictures of kids or women, I too would question their motives. Especially if his actions border on stalking. It's one thing to "See the shot, raise the camera and shoot", it's another to follow a specific person around to take their picture.

I don't do a lot of street photography, but when I do, I tend to focus more on the feel of what is in front of me rather than the specific person, even if they are the only one in the shot. Like the above video says, if you feel creepy about what you are doing, it probably is.

nmp · Aug 13, 2019

StepheKoontz said:
If you don't truly understand what you are photographing on the street, you probably shouldn't be taking the shot. And I do understand when participants are at a fair or an event as observers, them not wanting pictures taken where they are the subject without their knowledge. If some guy is going around focusing on taking of pictures of kids or women, I too would question their motives. Especially if his actions border on stalking. It's one thing to "See the shot, raise the camera and shoot", it's another to follow a specific person around to take their picture.

I don't do a lot of street photography, but when I do, I tend to focus more on the feel of what is in front of me rather than the specific person, even if they are the only one in the shot. Like the above video says, if you feel creepy about what you are doing, it probably is.

View attachment 228860 View attachment 228861

I agree. Many of them take what I call street portraits, close ups of people on the street or at a gathering. To me that's intrusion on someone's privacy - unless a specific permission is asked and given. Particularly those of children, no matter how cute they are. I have less of a problem when people are simply a part of the larger surrounding - that to me is more interesting "street" photography anyway.

Reality of the matter is more complex than one side or the other.

Mackinaw · Aug 13, 2019

The more unusual the camera you use for street photography, the less apt you are to be hassled. When I take along my Crown Graphic 4x5, I always have people ask me about the camera. Most ask me to take their picture even though I tell them it's a film camera and can't show them the image. I usually have a similar experience with a TLR. It's 35mm camera and smaller that can be a problem. Just my observations.

Jim B.

Ko.Fe. · Aug 13, 2019

pentaxuser said:
And hang around a Ferris wheel in Vienna ..cue Anton Karas

pentaxuser

Awesome! I like this time of the history, mankind and movies, music from it. Street photography as well.
But I made mistake. Sunglasses and hat. And real reason is to be protected from the sun.

I regularly go to the fairs and photograph kids I'm with and any one else. Some locals knows it and asking me for backup pictures sometimes.

I understand what is happening in the OP link.

Media reports regularly about odd people taking pictures of something they shouldn't have taken on the Fair. Some other odd people reads it and their slightly twisted mind got alerted. They are on the hunt to have moment of their glory.
While any person with regularly functioning brain, if seeing something alarming at the Fair, would immediately contact police which is always present at the Fair, those social warriors do not. They post pictures of other people, label them as they want and hoping to be glorified as the kids savers. But they are obviously not.

StepheKoontz · Aug 13, 2019

Mackinaw said:
The more unusual the camera you use for street photography, the less apt you are to be hassled. When I take along my Crown Graphic 4x5, I always have people ask me about the camera. Most ask me to take their picture even though I tell them it's a film camera and can't show them the image. I usually have a similar experience with a TLR. It's 35mm camera and smaller that can be a problem. Just my observations.

Jim B.

I've found the same. Even a Leica or other old rangefinders seem "less threatening" for a small package, but a 35mm film SLR looks just like a dSLR to most people. I have found old folders, especially the 6X9 ones elicit the same curiosity response.

MFstooges · Aug 13, 2019

Ko.Fe. said:
While any person with regularly functioning brain, if seeing something alarming at the Fair, would immediately contact police which is always present at the Fair, those social warriors do not. They post pictures of other people, label them as they want and hoping to be glorified as the kids savers. But they are obviously not.

Yeah I notice this and wonder what's inside their brain? Maybe they lack accountability in case the accused person hits back?
Just like the plane passenger shaming website, I dislike those.

MartinCrabtree · Aug 13, 2019

What's the difference between the images of him and the ones he took? Somehow there's a difference?

BrianShaw · Aug 13, 2019

Mackinaw said:
The more unusual the camera you use for street photography, the less apt you are to be hassled. When I take along my Crown Graphic 4x5, I always have people ask me about the camera. Most ask me to take their picture even though I tell them it's a film camera and can't show them the image. I usually have a similar experience with a TLR. It's 35mm camera and smaller that can be a problem. Just my observations.

Jim B.

Although I eschew “Street photography “ this has been my experience also.

Patrick Robert James · Aug 13, 2019

There is a difference between being legal and being ethical/socially responsible. I think a lot of photographers have bizarre delusions of grandeur, like they are going to be the most important photographer and be famous. That drives these types of situations. Seeing videos of people like Gilden also doesn't help. It makes a lot of street photographers act like a-holes. Just because something is legal doesn't mean you should do it. It is legal to get on a soapbox and scream racial epithets, but it isn't exactly socially responsible. Stuff is going to happen if you do it. If you are taking pictures of other people's children, especially in a creepy way, you should expect the same. Just because you are exercising your "rights" doesn't mean you are immune to other's exercising theirs.

That said, social media has turned into a cesspool. Not sure why any self respecting person would want to be exposed to it.

Ko.Fe. · Aug 13, 2019

Patrick Robert James said:
There is a difference between being legal and being ethical/socially responsible. I think a lot of photographers have bizarre delusions of grandeur, like they are going to be the most important photographer and be famous. That drives these types of situations. Seeing videos of people like Gilden also doesn't help. It makes a lot of street photographers act like a-holes. Just because something is legal doesn't mean you should do it. It is legal to get on a soapbox and scream racial epithets, but it isn't exactly socially responsible. Stuff is going to happen if you do it. If you are taking pictures of other people's children, especially in a creepy way, you should expect the same. Just because you are exercising your "rights" doesn't mean you are immune to other's exercising theirs.

That said, social media has turned into a cesspool. Not sure why any self respecting person would want to be exposed to it.

Have you actually watch videos of BG? He is often talks to whom he photographed. He sometimes even scheduling pictures taking with person he meets.
HCB was more creepy than openly taking pictures BG. Walking on tiptoes and holding camera behind.

logan2z · Aug 13, 2019

Interesting thread, echoes some of my own negative experiences doing street photography. I had one particularly bad experience about a year ago when I was photographing at a local beach boardwalk. Apparently someone complained that I was taking pictures of their kids and security confronted me. I do have a personal rule against taking photographs of children, homeless people etc. but it's pretty hard to point your camera anywhere at a beach boardwalk and not expect to inadvertently get a kid or two in the shot. Anyway, security made me feel sufficiently awkward that I decided to leave and I've never returned there. In fact I gave up doing street photography for a long while after that experience but just started getting back into it recently. I try and only do it in large cities where there are many people carrying cameras and it's easy to blend in.

Despite the fact that there is nothing illegal about photographing people/children on the street, photography is purely a hobby for me and I'd rather avoid situations that make me or others around me feel uncomfortable.

Wallendo · Aug 13, 2019

There is no difference between the photographer being photographed and the photographer photographing others. The real issue is the slanderous comments attached to the photographs posted online.

The Social Warrior who photographed this man apparently made absolutely no effort to stop a man he believed to be a "pervert", but was quite excited to post on the internet. There is an entire online culture based on memes where photographs are modified by adding new text unrelated to the situation of the photograph - and I had yet to see any attribution of who took the original on any of these. An innocent online photograph can be repurposed in almost any context, and as long as the meme is somehow interesting, will be reposted with no realization that the person photographed is an actual person who may not like being ridiculed.

Patrick Robert James · Aug 13, 2019

Ko.Fe. said:
Have you actually watch videos of BG? He is often talks to whom he photographed. He sometimes even scheduling pictures taking with person he meets.
HCB was more creepy than openly taking pictures BG. Walking on tiptoes and holding camera behind.

Of course I have. He is a complete azz.

Colin Corneau · Aug 13, 2019

You really have to rely on your own instincts -- problem is, those can be warped by the lousy societal zeitgeist we're in now.

I try improve my odds by reading a situation, by anticipating a moment well before it happens, being subtle but not sneaky, and having cards on me that I can show to people...it shows you take what you do seriously and have nothing to hide. Having a body of work you can show (ironically, via a phone) helps a lot.

And I try talk, when possible or when it seems that it'd be helpful. I've had people say no and I just smile, apologize and be on my way. Never been a problem...

MattKing · Aug 13, 2019

Colin Corneau said:
I just smile, apologize and be on my way.

Naturally, you are Canadian .

patois · Aug 13, 2019

I got over my dislike of street photography on my first trip to NYC. There were so many social media influencers being awful that I decided I would photograph their social media thirst.

jim10219 · Aug 13, 2019

It's funny how someone holding a camera in their hands and taking photos of people without their permission is seen so suspiciously, yet all of the security cameras controlled by people in a distant room don't instil the same fear and anger. And you can't even just say it's because those photos are for our own good. If you go to a fair, amusement park, sporting event, or practically any other repeating public event that requires payment, you'll likey see a disclaimer that they can take your picture, and use your likeness to advertise for their product without permission or compensation. And the press is expected to find vulnerable people in distress and profit off their likenesses and stories. You could argue they help them in return. But they're not a charity whose business is helping others. They're a business whose model is exploitation for profit. If the story won't generate interest and viewership, they won't pursue it.

So is street photography really immoral or unethical? And if so? To what degree compared to these other examples?

I don't do street photography and I don't like street photography. I'm just throwing out a logical argument supporting the right to do so.

Willy T · Aug 13, 2019

On a mild summer evening in May, 2005, I got out of my truck in the lot adjoining a strikingly beautiful lighthouse on the central coast of California. I had a modest Canon G-something on a strap around my neck as I walked. Many, many other people were also arriving and heading in the same direction. The lighthouse and outbuildings were glowing in the sunset.

A couple, a fortyish woman and much younger man walked near me. Her young daughter asked the woman if she could go alone to the public restroom nearby. "Ok," the woman said, "But watch out for all the perverts hanging around," while pointedly giving me the vicious stink eye. I couldn't help but burst out laughing,

It's probably somewhat worse nowadays. You don't necessarily need to be doing "street photography" to stir the latent angry paranoia in people. It may help if you are not alone, best if you are half of a couple; a sad reflection on our times that you need a domestic partner to signal your 'normality" and allay the fears of a public always on the lookout for criminals.

images39 · Aug 14, 2019

Colin Corneau said:
At the risk of sounding like a fuddy-duddy, I put this hysteria and mean-spiritedness squarely on the influence of social media.

Social media has indoctrinated our society to think they are the centre of the universe and that every passing brain fart is on par with Einstein and Hawking. There is an undeniable 'chicken coop' mentality now, where a frenzy of violence is unleashed at the first hint of blood. We are all isolated behind our phones (and if you think it's bad with adults, just have a look at 12-30 year olds now) and the entire world is a tiny screen...no wonder people see other human beings as just things. It's not a problem to attack and demonize a thing, is it?

I've certainly seen a difference over the past decade or two in terms of the overall mood. I still photograph in public and haven't had a problem -- but the change is evident. People are *miserable* and just looking for a reason to BE miserable. I get it -- I spend more than 5 minutes on any social media platform I feel like sh!t myself.

The worrisome part, I think, is what we lose by isolating ourselves. We lose art, first of all...think of the great images by Winogrand, Meier, Meyerowitz, and so many more. Now think of them being deleted...that's what social media trains people to do.
We lose connectedness -- actual, human interaction -- in favour of the false, sterile faux-connectedness of algorithms that exist only to sell us ads.
We lose empathy and good will -- instead, we get meanness, suspicion and anger.

Not a world I want to live in. I can't help but think in future decades, we'll look back on this era the same way we look back on a society that advertised cigarettes to pregnant women and spraying DDT everywhere..."what were they THINKING?!??"

Well stated, I second this.

Dale

Ko.Fe. · Aug 14, 2019

Patrick Robert James said:
Of course I have. He is a complete azz.

I guess personal reaction is variable thing. To me he is more than street photographer.

jtk · Aug 14, 2019

If you can't stand the heat...

blockend · Aug 14, 2019

nmp said:
Many of them take what I call street portraits

Street portraits and street photography are linked only by the word street. Aesthetically, generically and philosophically they have nothing in common.

I may never do street photography

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