I keep overdeveloping in Rodinal

brian steinberger · May 2, 2007

The other day I tried 120 Delta 100 EI 50 in Rodinal 1:50 for 9 min. That seemed to be general concensous for the time for Rodinal. The negs were bulletproof. Tonight I did some Fomapan 200 EI 100 4x5 negs in Rodinal 1:50 and the general concensous seemed to be around 8-9 min. Judging from my previous experience I gave them 7 minutes. Again, bulletproof. Why are my negatives so overdeveloped when the times that I'm gathering from people are well under the times recommended by manufacturers? My metering is fine.

I'll give a detail of my process. 2 minute pre-soak, agitation in dev. constant for the first min. then 10 sec every min. 30 sec. in 1% stop bath, then 5 min in fix, 2 min. hypo clear, 10 min. wash. Could the 2 min. presoak be to blame? Ive always been taught to presoak films. Any other suggestions would be great. The tonality of Rodinal is amazing! If only I could tame those highlights...

Anscojohn · May 2, 2007

bullet proof with Rodinal

Brian,
Have you checked your thermometer?

AnscoJohn

reellis67 · May 2, 2007

Please explain in more detail what *you* mean by bulletproof. I would interpret that as almost all black over the *entire* negative, which would mean that you are badly overexposing the film. If this is the case changing development will not help anything - you need to figure out what is wrong with your metering technique. If you are getting very, very contrasty negatives that show either deep black or almost clear, with little or no middle values then you need to expose more and develop less. I've got an article on my website that explains how to adjust exposure and development to control contrast. Just click on "Articles" in the navigation bar and look at 'Expose for the shadows - develop for the highlights".

- Randy

aldevo · May 2, 2007

As AnscoJohn suggested - check that thermometer for accuracy.

If that isn't the problem, then try reducing agitation. I find that very gentle inversions with the frequency you mentioned will more than get the job done. I know some photographers who "agitate their brains out" and their development times are about 20-30% shorter than my own as a consequence.

PHOTOTONE · May 2, 2007

You're just going to have to process for less time or expose less., or both. All exposure and developing "should" be contoured to your style, and water supply, etc. So many factors. Published times are "suggested" times, not set in stone.

frotog · May 2, 2007

Prewash is not your problem. Try changing agitation. I like Rodinal as a stand developer. 1:50 works great as a stand or semi-stand developer. With little or no agitation the developer activity will become exhausted in the highlights while development continues in the shadow areas resulting in a very printable negative with nice full, contrasty shadow areas and evenly gradated highlights. Prewash for at least 2-3 minutes, one gentle inversion at start of development, tank in water jacket at 70 degrees for 45-50 minutes and voila!

MikeK · May 2, 2007

Why don't you run a test with a 1:100 dilution. My universal time for this dilution is 18 minutes. At this dilution pretty impossible to over develop.

One other thought - have you checked the accuracy of your meter? My guess is over exposure is the culprit

Mike

Changeling1 · May 2, 2007

Don't forget your shutter(s)!

If your metering is "perfect" and time, agitation and temp. of the developer are ok, the problem could be in your shutter. Fred Picker went to great lengths to explain the importance of finding "your personal film speed" as a prelude to using the Zone System. This can be a pain for those of us with huge and diverse lens collections but knowing the true speed of your shutters can be very helpful. Of course the idea of using one film, one paper, one lens, one developer at one temp. is a tall order
but sure makes life easier in the darkroom. I have to confess the only time I strictly adhered to the above was when I was shooting tons of b/w headshots and doing the processing, proofs, and printing in-house. I saved a lot of time and money standardizing the whole process.

brian steinberger · May 2, 2007

Guys,

My thermometer is fine because I've calibrated other film and dev. combinations in the past and they still work great. I'm just now getting into Rodinal. It's good to know that it's not the pre-soak. Also, just got the meter calibrated by Richard Ritter about 3 months ago. Plus, again, I use this meter with other combinations with sucess.

To clearify better, I shoot each film at one stop under stated speed, and did get very good shadow detail. Midtones are a little light, but this is due to over exposure. If I had to do it again, I would honestly start at 5 min with the Fomapan combo, but this seems really short! Maybe I should move to the 1:100 dilution?

gainer · May 2, 2007

Try using box speed. I have never found Rodinal to be a speed reducing developer. What happens when you try to print one? Is it the density or the contrast that is making the negs bulletproof? Also don't forget that AGFA instructions usually result in CI of about 0.65, which is too high for most of us.

gainer · May 2, 2007

Your last post came in while I was writing. If shadows print well but midtones are light, you are overdeveloping. If time gets too short, dilute more. As long as you have 5 ml of the concentrate in you tank for each roll, you should be fine.

Tom Hoskinson · May 3, 2007

brian steinberger said:
The other day I tried 120 Delta 100 EI 50 in Rodinal 1:50 for 9 min. That seemed to be general concensous for the time for Rodinal. The negs were bulletproof. Tonight I did some Fomapan 200 EI 100 4x5 negs in Rodinal 1:50 and the general concensous seemed to be around 8-9 min. Judging from my previous experience I gave them 7 minutes. Again, bulletproof. Why are my negatives so overdeveloped when the times that I'm gathering from people are well under the times recommended by manufacturers? My metering is fine.

I'll give a detail of my process. 2 minute pre-soak, agitation in dev. constant for the first min. then 10 sec every min. 30 sec. in 1% stop bath, then 5 min in fix, 2 min. hypo clear, 10 min. wash. Could the 2 min. presoak be to blame? Ive always been taught to presoak films. Any other suggestions would be great. The tonality of Rodinal is amazing! If only I could tame those highlights...

Based on my experience with Rodinal, I believe that you are over-agitating during the first minute. A 2 minute presoak should be fine - I presoak for 5 minutes.

To tame the highlights, try a higher dilution and less agitation. Thus move towards Stand (or Semi-Stand) development.

Matt5791 · May 3, 2007

Really interesting thread this - I have also had experience of over development in Rodinal, and I have only recently started using it as my preferred developer.

Processed some Delta 100 (EI 80) last night and felt the resulting negs too contrasty - it was a roll of contrasty shots (snow and sun etc) but nevertheless I felt I had given it too much.

I like the sound of less agitation - I agitate with two inversions at the start, then 2 every 30 seconds. I will try reducing this to 2 every minute or even one every minute, but keep my time the same.

Also I have found the Agfa recommended times way too long for my methods.

Matt

mcgrattan · May 3, 2007

My experience with Rodinal and R09 is that agitation is key. It's very responsive to changes in agitation. Not that I am some expert on that particular developer or anything but I've found that a couple of gentle inversions a minute works for me. Any more and I run the risk of getting over-developed contrasty negs.

I got into the habit using Rodinal as my first developer when I began developing my own film a few years back and I've found that a similar gentle inversion regime works well for me for other developers too.

Although I generally prefer to use stand or semi-stand with Rodinal/R09 anyway.

P C Headland · May 3, 2007

I'll chime in too recommending you back off on the agitation.

I usually use Rodinal @ 1+100 (20C) and do five slow inversions (in 15s) at the start of each minute for the first three minutes, then one inversion every three minutes thereafter. Most films have a time of 17-20 minutes at this dilution (& agitation scheme) I find.

For 1+50, after the first three minutes as per above, I do one gentle inversion each minute. For Delta, I developed for 8.5 minutes and got really nice negatives.

Alternatively, 1+100 for 1 hour stand will work with many films. Agitate with slow inversions for 30s, then put it down for a further 59.5 minutes. You can if you want do a couple of inversions at the halfway mark.

I shoot most films at box speed.

Mark Antony · May 3, 2007

I think the problem is the agitation.
Try this
1 min pre-soak
18min at 1:100 (this is a ballpark for most films)
Agitate for the first 30 sec very gently. Then 1 inversion for every 2 mins thereafter.
I have found that too much agitation increases contrast (bad if you scan)

Highlights are easily preserved.
Mark
film tests here with times:
http://photo-utopia.blogspot.com/

rtuttle · May 3, 2007

I use Rodinal for Ilford FP4 which I believe the recommended development time is 9 minutes. I have found that 6.5 works best to get my zone VIII. 9 minutes for both 35mm and 4x5 was way to long and I don't over agitate.

brian steinberger · May 3, 2007

Thanks everyone for all you helpful suggestions and comments. I think I'm going to move up to the 1:100 dilution with less agitation.

Neal · May 4, 2007

Dear Brian,

This is a wild guess, but 10 seconds of agitation every 30 is much more than most Rodinal devotees. Your reduced times might stem from that. (I'm not suggesting you need to change no that you have things worked out.)

Neal Wydra

reellis67 · May 6, 2007

Neal said:
Dear Brian,

This is a wild guess, but 10 seconds of agitation every 30 is much more than most Rodinal devotees. Your reduced times might stem from that. (I'm not suggesting you need to change no that you have things worked out.)

Neal Wydra

I would agree with that - my routine is 4-5 each minute...

- Randy

jon furer · May 6, 2007

hey brian,

remember what jim said...test, test, test. sounds like you need to run a personal iso/dev time for best results. I know its tedious, but since i started doing this my results have improved, big time. hope you're well.

jon

I keep overdeveloping in Rodinal

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