I just have to jump for joy, and I have questions - Mamiya RB67 Pro-SD

[Kirks518]

I'm bursting inside, really! I got a call on Tuesday from a lady who was looking to sell a Mamiya. Both she and her daughter are/were professional photographers, and her daughter bought this a few years ago. Two months after buying it, she broke her wrist, and couldn't hold the camera anymore, so she gave it to mom. Mom tried it for "a few rolls", but prefers the 35mm cameras and format, so it sat in a closet in its hard shelled foam padded case with 10 -15 packs of silica ever since. When I spoke with her on the phone, she said it was a Mamiya RB67 Pro-S, with "a couple of lenses and a bunch of extras". Okay, I'm interested. I met her yesterday, and we struck a deal.

Up until this point, my experience with MF has been a Franka Rolfix and a Zeiss Ikoflex (original version). Both of those didn't really impress or excite me, but I attributed that lack of enthusiasm to a) mediocre equipment (Franka), and b) focus registration between the taking lens and viewing lens on the Ikoflex. I just wasn't feeling 'wowed' with either.

So I get the RB home, and (this is embarrassing) about after 3 hours of reading and trying to get an understanding of the camera, I realize it's the Pro-SD. Now I'm even more excited, as it made the deal even better.

What I got was;

• RB67 Pro-SD body
• RB adapter
• 120 back
• Polaroid back (still sealed in the original box)
• Prism Finder Model 2
• (3) Waist Level Finders (why there are 3 I have no idea)
• 90mm
• 180mm
• 3 Collapsible rubber lens hoods (not the bellows hood)
• All Body, Lens, and Back caps
• All the original manuals for everything, along with a bunch of Mamiya brochures and pamphlets

All of it is in new condition. I can't find the slightest imperfection on any surface, anywhere.

Today I shot one roll using both lenses. As I don't have a darkroom/enlarger, or a scanner that handles 120, I have to wait an eternity (Monday) before I can actually see the results. But I digress....

Just looking through the VF I can see the difference between MF and 35mm, and I don't mean size-wise. There is a magical quality when looking through the camera that I have never seen before with anything else. I think I'm hooked!

Now for some questions....

Lenses. From my understanding, MF lenses have the 35mm equivalent of roughly half (90mm = 45mm and 180mm = 90mm). Now I usually never like the 40-60mm range, but on the MF, it (the 90mm) has a completely different feel and look through the viewfinder (prism), which IMO has a magical quality. Same goes for the 180mm. I guess it's the format that makes the difference? The reason I'm asking about the 35mm equivalent is that my brain thinks in 35mm, so it's easier to wrap my head around the FOV, and for when I'm looking at other lenses for future purchase (don't tell my wife).

The distance scale on the side. How the &%$# do you read that? I read the manual, I read a couple of threads about it here and on other forums, but none of it makes any sense to me. It seems to be the goofiest distance scale I've ever seen.

Infrared. I like infrared. Where can I find the info as to IR focus offset/compensation for the lenses?

Flash. It's a cold shoe on the side, so is a PC cord with Pocket Wizards (or similar) my only option for OCF? Seems I'll have to use the cord for any and all flash.

Handheld vs Tripod. The roll I shot today was handheld. Looking at the negatives, it seems I did well, but this camera seems to have been designed for the studio on a tripod. Do those of you that have one use them handheld much? At 6 lbs., I may not need to go to the gym! I do have good tripods, but I very rarely use them. Should I just leave one in the car just in case? I also have an excellent monopod, do they work well with this beast?

Lenses (Part II). What is your favorite focal length in MF? I know this is a bit of a loaded question, as a landscaper is going to prefer a different FL then a portrait shooter. I guess I'm trying to figure out what the best lens arsenal would be for a good, versatile kit. I've read that the 127mm is loved by many, but would it be worth it for me to get it in lieu of one or both of the lenses I have? If so, why do you feel that way?

This was probably my longest thread ever. If you read it all the way through, thanks. I just can't contain myself with this camera!

 

[MattKing]

Congratulations.

Is the back an SD or Pro-S back? Is the rotating adapter an SD or Pro-S rotating adapter? You will be able to tell if the double exposure and dark slide interlocks work.

With respect to the distance scale, it is colour coded. There is one coloured curve for each focal length. Pick the one for the lens you are using and then rack the bellows in and out. Wherever the appropriate curve meets up with the stationary edge, read immediately to the left. You will see distance markings. The marking that is closest to where the curve and the edge intersect is your distance. As the manual indicates on page 27, the example pictured shows the dotted line that corresponds with the 127mm lens crossing the edge at about 1.5m/5 feet.

For me, the left hand trigger grip makes these cameras very usable hand held. I also like using them on a monopod - the rotating back makes it quite pleasing. But yes, you should have a tripod available. I find it much easier to use the RB67 with a tripod (or a monopod) if I have a quick release.

As each lens has its own shutter, yes you do need to use a PC cord for flash. If you have the left hand trigger grip, it too has a cold shoe, so near camera flash becomes more pleasing.

As far as lens choice is concerned, if you add a 50mm to your set, it will be an excellent trio. Be careful about using 35mm analogies, because the different aspect ratio of 35mm really skews that.

In my case, I have 50mm, 65mm, 140mm macro and 180mm lenses. My "small" kit is a 65mm, 140mm pair. The 50mm really does feel quite wide.

What version of the lenses do you have: unmarked, NB, C or K/L?

With respect to infrared, there is no simple answer, because the adjustment will be different for each lens, but given that the current infrared sensitive films are essentially sensitive to near infrared visible light, rather than the much longer wavelength true infrared, any necessary adjustment is tiny anyways.

I'm not sure why you would have three waist level finders. Was the kit once much larger (i.e. 3 bodies)? Do the magnifying lenses have different diopters installed (to suit the eyesight of three different photographers)?

Mike Butkus' site has lots of good manuals relating to your camera. Here are links to a useful index page or two: http://www.butkus.org/chinon/mamiya/mamiya_lenses_accessories/mamiya_lenses_accessories.htm and http://www.butkus.org/chinon/mamiya.htm

In any event, congratulations.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

From my understanding, MF lenses have the 35mm equivalent of roughly half (90mm = 45mm and 180mm = 90mm). Now I usually never like the 40-60mm range, but on the MF, it (the 90mm) has a completely different feel and look through the viewfinder (prism), which IMO has a magical quality. Same goes for the 180mm. I guess it's the format that makes the difference? The reason I'm asking about the 35mm equivalent is that my brain thinks in 35mm, so it's easier to wrap my head around the FOV, and for when I'm looking at other lenses for future purchase (don't tell my wife).

Sounds like Christmas came early this year?



Just for fun, here's a pair of charts showing what would be the approximate equivalent focal lengths for your 90mm and 180mm lenses in a gazillion other standard, and not so standard, film formats. Three orientations are listed. The diagonal is usually considered the best approximation. Your lenses are highlighted.

The 90mm lens:

And the 180mm:

Enjoy your new stuff. Post some pictures in the gallery when you feel ready.

Ken

 

[shutterfinger]

Comparing lens of one format to another format equivalent is oft times like comparing granny smith apples to bartlett pears. 35mm is 24mm x 36mm while 6x7 is 56cm x 70cm nominal but the actual image size may be 56mm x 68mm. This plays a major role in how a focal length looks on a given format.
The "normal" lens is based on the film frame diagonal which is 43mm for 135 format and 89mm for 6x7.

The top of the "distance scale" is marked in mm and is the bellows extension from infinity; the bottom is the amount of extra exposure to add to compensate for the bellows extension. On the body side is a vertical distance scale in meters and feet, on the front standard side is a list of lens focal lengths made for this camera. Between the focal length list and the distance scale are dotted lines connecting the focal length to the distance scale. You focus the 90mm lens on a subject, you look at the focal length list and find the 90mm line and follow it to the distance scale and read your focused distance. So simple its hard. Look at the bottom edge of the scale to see if you need to compensate the basic exposure for this lens and focused distance. You read the exposure compensation on the left, distance scale, side

For flash you use a PC cord and connect your flash to the shutter. A thrystor flash only needs to be set to the film speed and aperture in use for a given focused distance, the thrystor will control the flash duration to provide a good exposure. A manual flash you use the flash guide number and calculate the exposure yourself or you use a flash meter to determine proper exposure. With leaf shutters you use shutter speed to control ambient light exposure and aperture for flash exposure.

For me the weight, size of the camera, and cost of lens in the 1990's and early 2000's I decided to go with a 4x5 press/field camera as it was more versatile for what I want to do and sold the RB.

 

[Kirks518]

Ken, thanks for those.

Matt -
The back is the Pro-S, with the multiple exp safety.
I forgot to say the specifics of the lenses, as I don't have them memorized yet.
The 90mm is K/L 3.5 L Floating Element
The 180mm is Mamiya Sekor C 4.5

I just figured out the camera was bought in late 1993, in the paperwork was he Xmas flyer for '93 from the store it was bought from (Helix).

I'll certainly be posting images from this camera.

I'll also add some pics of the camera over the weekend. The condition on this thing is amazing.

 

[landscapepics]

I use an RZ rather than an RB but the handling and weight issues are very similar. I am mostly a landscape photographer so a tripod is standard equipment for me. However, I do find a monopod useful for confined spaces like paths on public gardens and it works quite well in conjunction with the waist level finder. I think it would be awkward with a prism finder. If using a monopod or hand-holding then ISO400 film will help you. The neg size and lens quality makes 400 film a much more attractive proposition than it is in 35mm. I have shot down to 1/30s with a monopod.

 

[analoguey]

Congratulations, Kirk! Try some of the Polaroids or Fuji instants as well -they're pretty sweet too!
The 90 is a great walkabout lens - and a fantastic performer, the KL.
It's a tripod Shooter only if you shoot still life or landscapes, imho. I don't see portraits being shot on a tripod with this rig (I prefer using hand-held, without strap, l-grip)
I find LF more convenient on tripod than the WLF toting RB.

 

[DcAnalogue]

Congrats...! Great camera.....
I've just bought on the 'bay a "mint" 180mm C.... It will join to the 90 & 50 mm C for my RB 67 Pro-S

 

[tkamiya]

I have an RB-SD as well. I often use L bracket when I hand hold but I don't use the trigger button on the bracket. It just gives me a nice way to hold it and keep it horizontal. I almost never use a tripod.

The distance scale isn't all that useful to me for normal use. To use, pick a line that matches the lens in use, then see where the line crosses the distance scale on body. For example, if you are using 90mm, use the 4th line from bottom in red. If you happen to be focusing very close, look at the bottom. If you are in +0.5 territory, that's how much you'd compensate your exposure.

I use half of 35mm as a guide for coverage conversion. It works for me. Basically, what you see is what you get. Once you get used to it, it won't be an issue or a source of confusion.

As to favorite, I like 65mm and 90mm. Mine are all KL lenses. They are SO cheap now, I just went for the best available. I also have 150mmS/F and I use it the least. 127 and 180 have actually never been used....

I really dislike the prism finder because makes an already heavy camera so much heavier. I have difficulty holding it steady at my eye level. Waist level works the best for my needs. Only problem there is, under bright sunlight, seeing it is a bit more challenging.

Yes, you'll have to use cord for all flashes. I have a Metz potato masher/meat pounder.

If your camera/lens hasn't been used for quite a while, be sure to exercise everything before taking them out to a shoot. Oil may have been hardened or migrated. Also, check your back for light leaks. SD type doesn't usually leak, but I have had a few that did. Just waste a roll first so you don't get your good shots ruined.

That's all I can share with you. Have fun with your new toy!

 

[Alan Gales]

Congratulations! I used to own an RZ67 with the 180, 110 and 50 ULD. The RB and RZ's are great cameras.

As Matt mentioned earlier, get the "L" grip with the trigger (cable release). It makes the camera so much easier to handle. I had both finders for mine but hated the metered prism finder. Like tkamiya says it makes a heavy camera heavier.

I didn't use a shoe mounted flash with my RZ. I used a set of Novatron studio strobes. You can pick them up dirt cheap on Ebay. Ken Rockwell has an article about them on his website if you are interested. Of course there are other brands out there but the Novatrons are a lot of bang for your buck.

 

[film_man]

Congratulations! I have a ProSD kit myself, a wonderful camera.

To answer your questions:

Lenses:
When comparing lenses across formats it is difficult. A 65mm for your RB67 is like 35mm on a 135 camera on the horizontal but 24mm on the vertical! So the comparison is not that easy. Generally since 67 is more square than 135 a wide lens feels wider than what you are used to 135 as you get a lot more on the vertical.

Which lenses, I have tried the 65, 90, 127, 180 and 250. I now have the 90 and 127. Between the 180 and 127 there is very little difference, I prefer the 127 as I'm not too keen on longer lenses but if you have the 180 I don't think I'd bother getting another lens, yet. The main difference is that the 127 is the smallest and lightest lens in the line-up and is 1 stop faster so I prefer that since it makes shooting handheld easier. My favourite lenses? Well as I said, I now have the 90 and 127. The 90 is for everything, the 127 if I want a close-up portrait.

Model-wise the KL lenses are supposed to be the better ones, I don't know how they compare to the older C lenses, I've only had KL lenses so can't help with that.

Focus distance scale:
When you learn how to use it let me know. To tell you truth, I never bother with it but I'm not a landscape guy.

Infrared:
Can't help with that, don't shoot it.

Handheld:
Don't be afraid to use the camera handheld. I can easily shoot 1/15 with the 90mm lens and it all comes out sharp. I can do 1/8 sometimes, I know a guy who can use 1/8 all the time but he doesn't drink coffee The trick is to get the adjustable grip for it, it just makes it sooooooooo much easier and nicer to use handheld. As for how often I use it handheld? I've had the camera for a year, shot dozens of rolls with it and I have probably taken maybe 10 shots of those on a tripod. Get the grip and get a good bag to put it in for when you're not shooting, I have a ThinkTank Retrospective 30 and I can spend a whole day walking around with it.

Flash:
The sync socket is your only option. If you get the grip then you will have a much nicer place to put the flash/pocketwizard than the side of the camera. I used PWs with mine plenty of times, no issues or anything special.

Finally:
If you are serious about keeping it and decide it is the camera for you I recommend getting a brighter focus screen for it. I got one from Bill Maxwell, at $400 it ain't cheap but it is much brighter, has better focus snap and makes using the camera much easier in daylight as it is not as reflective. Also, if you ever want a prism look for the L2 prism, it fits the RZ67 too so it is easier to sell again. However, if you do get a prism I would really really really recommend you have the grip.

 

[rjs003]

I have owned a few of these cameras and have enjoyed using each one.
I shoot using a tripod only because of the RA; but was in my younger days able to use this camera hand held.
Get your self a copy of the owners manual and learn how to use this camera.
Good luck

 

[Sirius Glass]

Enjoy!

 

[Kirks518]

Thanks for all the great insight everyone!


Looks like a grip is in my future.


So far I've only been using the prism finder, as I find it easier to focus then the WLF, as my eyesight isn't what it used to be. To me, the prism looks brighter then the WLF, and the prism has the diopters. It's the Model2 prism.


The kit came with all the manuals for all the different accessories, lenses, and the camera itself. I've read through it 3 times so far, so I'm starting to learn it. I think the best is to just shoot.


I think I'll keep the monopod handy. In the kit there was also a Manfrotto QR plate and adapter, so I'll throw that on the monopod.


I need to sell some stuff, and then I'll get the 50mm and the grip.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Ken Nadvornick's post # 3 points out that the normal 6x7 lens is 90mm [the normal for 6x6 is 80mm]. The 180mm is a short telephoto and makes a great portrait lens.

 

[Terry Breedlove]

Mostly on a tripod with the same prism finder that you have but when i do hand hold my RB I use the waist level finder and hold the camera snuggled into my body with my left hand and arm under and supporting the Camera. Works really well.

 

[PtJudeRI]

Welcome to the club! The RB is a workhorse, and decently bulletproof. That being said, the seals on the backs don't age well, so you may want to peek at those if anything odd pops up in your negs. I have the 37mm, 50, 90 and 180mm. All the lenses are great (even my 50 wi
Hitch isn't in the best shape) and I've always loved the rotating back feature. I, too, don't often use the side scale. Maybe for macro I would, but as a general rule, I'm going by eye. The bracket is decent, but I find it torques on your wrist after a while, so I don't often use it. Show us some shots!

 

[tkamiya]

If your eyesight is not great, WLF may actually be easier. There is a flip up magnifier. What I usually do is to flip it up into position and get really close to it. Center of the image is magnified and I can also see all the way to the edges. That's how I use mine most of the time.

Only problem I've encountered is when doing the same under very bright sun light. Too much light gets into the viewing area and image becomes very difficult to see.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Only problem I've encountered is when doing the same under very bright sun light. Too much light gets into the viewing area and image becomes very difficult to see.

One helpful technique is to wear a wide-brimmed hat on sunny days. Not only does it protect your face from sunburn, but it also serves to shield the ground glass in a WLF from reflecting back the bright sky directly above it.

I've been doing this for years with TLRs. With a sufficiently dark hat and wide enough brim the difference can be dramatic.

Ken

 

[Trail Images]

I've been using an RB67 ProSD for 25+ years now. I shoot 4x5 also. However, I use the RB a lot. I'm retired so I'm a weekly shooter. If I had to pick my most used lens as a landscape only shooter all these years, I'd say my 65mm C unit. Although I do have a range from 37mm to 180mm and use them all. In fact, I used my 127 for the first time in quite awhile on an isolated canyon shot just the other day with fantastic results. So, they all work. As far as handheld and tripod, I've never shot handheld. Always tripod mounted, mirror lockup, and a double release cable(s) I made for tripping the mirror and then shutter.

Enjoy your new Bonanza of gear, it's a great setup IMVHO.

 

[flavio81]

Congrats on owning one of the best cameras ever invented.

Don't be afraid to use it handheld. I take it out to the street all the time. Just get a really good camera strap. For handheld use it is extremely stable, more than a 35mm SLR.

 

[Kirks518]

I had a meetup today to try and get some Bald Eagle shots, and for fun, I brought the Mamiya (along with my DSLR). I packed it in a sling bag, which is just big enough to fit it, both lenses, film and light meter.

I only took 4 shots with it, as we pretty much got skunked on the eagles, but I took some 'landscape' and abstract shots.

This thing is heavy! after two hours, my shoulder was sore! LOL> I would have been better off with my backpack, but now I know.

 

[SchwinnParamount]

Sounds like Christmas came early this year?



Just for fun, here's a pair of charts showing what would be the approximate equivalent focal lengths for your 90mm and 180mm lenses in a gazillion other standard, and not so standard, film formats. Three orientations are listed. The diagonal is usually considered the best approximation. Your lenses are highlighted.

The 90mm lens:

And the 180mm:

Enjoy your new stuff. Post some pictures in the gallery when you feel ready.

Ken

Green screen and output somewhat like the output of "c:\bla.txt print | more" Takes me back.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Green screen and output somewhat like the output of "c:\bla.txt print | more" Takes me back.

"Not as clumsy or as random as a blaster, but a more elegant weapon for a more civilized age."



Ken

 

[flavio81]

This thing is heavy! after two hours, my shoulder was sore! LOL> I would have been better off with my backpack, but now I know.

Consider that you were carrying the mamiya + a DSLR (pro dslrs are relatively heavy) + 2 mamiya lenses + one? slr lens -> a lot of stuff, not just the RB.

I've carried the RB67 alone with the 90mm lens for 3 hours straight with no sore shoulders. Make sure you use a very good strap. I've used the Quiklok strap with success.